DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL

Ken Paris

DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
We will be loading data extracted from a legacy system, some of it into
existing tables, all of which have an identity as the PK. Because of the
nature of the existing data and having to create foreign keys with correct
values, we sometimes assign the identity values using a base increment -
MAX(identity_col_value) at load time - and the contents of an existing
field. This means that sometimes the range of identity values we are adding
is not just the next n available values. In one case, for example, we are
loading about 10 or 15 million new rows into a table of less than 10 million
existing rows, but the largest new identity value is about 100 million
larger than the current MAX(identity_col_value).

Unfortunately, after the load, the MAXASSIGNEDVAL values in SYSSEQUENCES
will be much lower than the actual next available value. So, we have to
increment each MAXASSIGNEDVAL value, some by as much as 100 million as
mentioned above.

There appears to be no quick way to do that, although the last messages in
the archives here are 6 months old. So, we appear to be looking at two
alternatives - unload/drop/recreate the table with an appropriate "START
WITH" value and then load the new data or use a routine which inserts into
the table until the MAXASSIGNEDVAL value is okay. We've seen that you can
do as much as 200,000 inserts per minute if the insert fails (so we don't
have to do rollbacks), but even this is too slow for some of the larger
tables (we don't have a very large window for the implementation). Which of
these two solutions is best for each table depends upon the number of
existing rows and how much the MAXASSIGNEDVAL needs to be incremented.

Given that there is no way to just zap the new values into MAXASSIGNEDVAL,
is there some more efficient technique we're not considering to increment
MAXASSIGNEDVAL?

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Walter Janißen

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Ken Paris)
Ken

I think there is no other way, as you wrote. To elude that problem, we
sometimes create a dummy table with only one column defined as IDENTITY.
Then we insert into that table to get the new value. This table can easily
be recreated with a new start value.

To get rid of those dummy rows, you can delete all row in batch when
trafiic is low on that table or delete each row after you inserted is, but
then you need an index, because otherwise you will run into deadlocks most
of the time.

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Phil Grainger

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Walter Janißen)
This is just one of the many "features" of Identity columns that gets fixed in version 8

As an aside (and you didn't hear this from me) I wonder if you can use the REPAIR utility to "tweak" the maxassignedval ue in SYSSEQUENCES???......

Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
[login to unmask email]



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Ken Paris
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 10:08 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL


We will be loading data extracted from a legacy system, some of it into
existing tables, all of which have an identity as the PK. Because of the
nature of the existing data and having to create foreign keys with correct
values, we sometimes assign the identity values using a base increment -
MAX(identity_col_value) at load time - and the contents of an existing
field. This means that sometimes the range of identity values we are adding
is not just the next n available values. In one case, for example, we are
loading about 10 or 15 million new rows into a table of less than 10 million
existing rows, but the largest new identity value is about 100 million
larger than the current MAX(identity_col_value).

Unfortunately, after the load, the MAXASSIGNEDVAL values in SYSSEQUENCES
will be much lower than the actual next available value. So, we have to
increment each MAXASSIGNEDVAL value, some by as much as 100 million as
mentioned above.

There appears to be no quick way to do that, although the last messages in
the archives here are 6 months old. So, we appear to be looking at two
alternatives - unload/drop/recreate the table with an appropriate "START
WITH" value and then load the new data or use a routine which inserts into
the table until the MAXASSIGNEDVAL value is okay. We've seen that you can
do as much as 200,000 inserts per minute if the insert fails (so we don't
have to do rollbacks), but even this is too slow for some of the larger
tables (we don't have a very large window for the implementation). Which of
these two solutions is best for each table depends upon the number of
existing rows and how much the MAXASSIGNEDVAL needs to be incremented.

Given that there is no way to just zap the new values into MAXASSIGNEDVAL,
is there some more efficient technique we're not considering to increment
MAXASSIGNEDVAL?

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Ken Paris

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Phil Grainger)
I have two questions (for anyone to respond to) related to your response.
I haven't used REPAIR. How safe is it and what's the likelihood we'll be
able to persuade the production DBA's to use it? We have over 20
identities we have to "bump".

Second, does anyone know of the likelihood that IBM will make the Version 8
facility available to V7 users via an APAR?

Here's an extract from the "V8 What's New" manual:

Support for altering identity columns: Since identity columns were first
introduced in Version 6, many customers have asked for the ability to alter
many of the attributes of identity columns. With Version 8, you can now
alter the sequence attributes of existing identity columns by using the
ALTER COLUMN clause of the ALTER TABLE statement. The ability to alter
attributes of identity columns eliminates the need to drop and re-create a
table and makes identity columns extremely flexible to use.

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Myron Miller

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Ken Paris)
Ken,
I've used REPAIR extensively. But always with extreme caution. Its not for
the causal user. You can cause serious damage with it if not careful and don't
understand what you're doing. Its fine if you understand it fully. But!!!

As to your second question, I don't officially have any idea what IBM will do
as only they would know. But based upon the experiences IBM had with V5
retroing fixes from V6 into it, I'd seriously doubt if IBM will ever do that
again. Some of the retro features caused nightmare headaches for people and
IBM support. So my personal feeling is that the chances of IBM putting that
feature into V7 are two (slim and none with slim being almost none existant).
Of course, that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much.

Myron
--- "[login to unmask email]" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> I have two questions (for anyone to respond to) related to your response.
> I haven't used REPAIR. How safe is it and what's the likelihood we'll be
> able to persuade the production DBA's to use it? We have over 20
> identities we have to "bump".
>
> Second, does anyone know of the likelihood that IBM will make the Version 8
> facility available to V7 users via an APAR?
>
> Here's an extract from the "V8 What's New" manual:
>
> Support for altering identity columns: Since identity columns were first
> introduced in Version 6, many customers have asked for the ability to alter
> many of the attributes of identity columns. With Version 8, you can now
> alter the sequence attributes of existing identity columns by using the
> ALTER COLUMN clause of the ALTER TABLE statement. The ability to alter
> attributes of identity columns eliminates the need to drop and re-create a
> table and makes identity columns extremely flexible to use.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
> page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select
> "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET
> DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins can
> be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG
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john matthews

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Myron Miller)
I thought I had heard from Roger Miller that IBM had decided to take the
approach of NOT retrofitting new features in old releases. New features
would only be in new releases.

-----Original Message-----
From: Myron Miller [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:01 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL


Ken,
I've used REPAIR extensively. But always with extreme caution. Its not
for
the causal user. You can cause serious damage with it if not careful and
don't
understand what you're doing. Its fine if you understand it fully. But!!!

As to your second question, I don't officially have any idea what IBM will
do
as only they would know. But based upon the experiences IBM had with V5
retroing fixes from V6 into it, I'd seriously doubt if IBM will ever do that
again. Some of the retro features caused nightmare headaches for people and
IBM support. So my personal feeling is that the chances of IBM putting that
feature into V7 are two (slim and none with slim being almost none
existant).
Of course, that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much.

Myron
--- "[login to unmask email]" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> I have two questions (for anyone to respond to) related to your response.
> I haven't used REPAIR. How safe is it and what's the likelihood we'll be
> able to persuade the production DBA's to use it? We have over 20
> identities we have to "bump".
>
> Second, does anyone know of the likelihood that IBM will make the Version
8
> facility available to V7 users via an APAR?
>
> Here's an extract from the "V8 What's New" manual:
>
> Support for altering identity columns: Since identity columns were first
> introduced in Version 6, many customers have asked for the ability to
alter
> many of the attributes of identity columns. With Version 8, you can now
> alter the sequence attributes of existing identity columns by using the
> ALTER COLUMN clause of the ALTER TABLE statement. The ability to alter
> attributes of identity columns eliminates the need to drop and re-create a
> table and makes identity columns extremely flexible to use.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home
> page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
select
> "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET
> DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins
can
> be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG
> conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm


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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Ben Eisenstein

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to john matthews)
I tried using REPAIR and you are able to update the MAXASSIGNEDVAL. The problem is CACHE. I haven't figured out how to flush it out. It
continues to use the values in memory. I tried a QUIESCE and that had no effect.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Phil Grainger

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Ben Eisenstein)
Try altering to CACHE 0 first......

Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
[login to unmask email]



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Ben Eisenstein
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:54 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL


I tried using REPAIR and you are able to update the MAXASSIGNEDVAL. The problem is CACHE. I haven't figured out how to flush it out. It
continues to use the values in memory. I tried a QUIESCE and that had no effect.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Roger Miller

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Phil Grainger)
My estimate of the likelihood of moving this back into V7 is very slim to
epsilon, which approaches zero. The V8 code changed a lot, so this would
not move back simply or easily. When the job is difficult and lots of
testing is needed, then the problem is risk. We have had many more upset
customers over the quality of the product than missing function.
Satisfying some customers and taking a big risk for many more is not good
business. The biggest controllable variable for PTFs in error is the
amount of enhancements in the service stream. When a release has been
generally available for three years (almost) there is very little room for
functional enhancements.

Roger Miller

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:03:41 -0800, Matthews, John
<[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>I thought I had heard from Roger Miller that IBM had decided to take the
>approach of NOT retrofitting new features in old releases. New features
>would only be in new releases.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Myron Miller [mailto:[login to unmask email]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:01 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
>
>
>Ken,
> I've used REPAIR extensively. But always with extreme caution. Its not
>for
>the causal user. You can cause serious damage with it if not careful and
>don't
>understand what you're doing. Its fine if you understand it fully.
But!!!
>
>As to your second question, I don't officially have any idea what IBM will
>do
>as only they would know. But based upon the experiences IBM had with V5
>retroing fixes from V6 into it, I'd seriously doubt if IBM will ever do
that
>again. Some of the retro features caused nightmare headaches for people
and
>IBM support. So my personal feeling is that the chances of IBM putting
that
>feature into V7 are two (slim and none with slim being almost none
>existant).
>Of course, that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much.
>
>Myron
>--- "[login to unmask email]" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
>> I have two questions (for anyone to respond to) related to your
response.
>> I haven't used REPAIR. How safe is it and what's the likelihood we'll
be
>> able to persuade the production DBA's to use it? We have over 20
>> identities we have to "bump".
>>
>> Second, does anyone know of the likelihood that IBM will make the
Version
>8
>> facility available to V7 users via an APAR?
>>
>> Here's an extract from the "V8 What's New" manual:
>>
>> Support for altering identity columns: Since identity columns were
first
>> introduced in Version 6, many customers have asked for the ability to
>alter
>> many of the attributes of identity columns. With Version 8, you can now
>> alter the sequence attributes of existing identity columns by using the
>> ALTER COLUMN clause of the ALTER TABLE statement. The ability to alter
>> attributes of identity columns eliminates the need to drop and re-
create a
>> table and makes identity columns extremely flexible to use.
>>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ben Eisenstein

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Roger Miller)
Thanks for the tip. It certainly beats cycling thru INSERTs until cache is exausted.

I opened a PMR on this problem over a year ago. There response then was wait for the new release. I am guessing that the V7 users of
identities
are few or not very vocal. It's a shame that IBM is forcing those of us who use them extensively to manually change the catalog instead of
providing an ALTER.

Ben



On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:33:57 -0000, Grainger, Phil <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Try altering to CACHE 0 first......
>
>Phil Grainger
>Computer Associates
>Product Manager, DB2
>Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
>Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
>Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
>[login to unmask email]
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
>Behalf Of Ben Eisenstein
>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:54 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
>
>
>I tried using REPAIR and you are able to update the MAXASSIGNEDVAL. The problem is CACHE. I haven't figured out how to flush it out. It
>continues to use the values in memory. I tried a QUIESCE and that had no effect.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The
IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The
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Phil Grainger

Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
(in response to Ben Eisenstein)
and when you get to "the next release" you'll probably find sequences better anyway!

Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
[login to unmask email]



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Ben Eisenstein
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL


Thanks for the tip. It certainly beats cycling thru INSERTs until cache is exausted.

I opened a PMR on this problem over a year ago. There response then was wait for the new release. I am guessing that the V7 users of
identities
are few or not very vocal. It's a shame that IBM is forcing those of us who use them extensively to manually change the catalog instead of
providing an ALTER.

Ben



On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:33:57 -0000, Grainger, Phil <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Try altering to CACHE 0 first......
>
>Phil Grainger
>Computer Associates
>Product Manager, DB2
>Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
>Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
>Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
>[login to unmask email]
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
>Behalf Of Ben Eisenstein
>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:54 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: DB2 z/OS V7 - Identity columns and MAXASSIGNEDVAL
>
>
>I tried using REPAIR and you are able to update the MAXASSIGNEDVAL. The problem is CACHE. I haven't figured out how to flush it out. It
>continues to use the values in memory. I tried a QUIESCE and that had no effect.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The
IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
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