Please Read: Message from Chief List Admin Regarding Subject header change, Cancelled

Philip Gunning

Please Read: Message from Chief List Admin Regarding Subject header change, Cancelled
I've decided to leave things the way they are as most of you have your email
software set the way you want it. For your information, there is a
subscription option, SUBJECTHDR (that does the same thing) that individual
subscribers can set via the web interface by selecting join or leave the
list or change settings from the home page. So if you need to include DB2-L
in the Subject then you can set this option. In the future, new subscribers
will have this as the default. If you have any difficulty using the web
interface, contact the list admins.
Cheers, Phil

--
Philip K. Gunning
pgunningatgunningtsdotcom
Chief List Admin IDUG DB2-L
IDUG NA 2004 Conference Co-chair
Orlando, Fl May 9-13, 2004
IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert DB2 UDB V8

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Thomas H

Re: Message from Chief List Admin
(in response to Philip Gunning)
Rather than keeping it private, I would prefer to discuss it in public so
that others can also see the replies.

I would ask that you consider the implications of this before proceeding to
implement this change.

Placing a keyword in a subject plays havoc with many email clients because
of the inconsistency apps have in treating the "reply to" portion of the
subject line, and the relatively weak threading ability of other email
clients.

Outlook, as a big example (and I would guess others as well), can only
thread a subject alphabetically. It minimally appears to be able to ignore
"RE:"'(s) in a thread to logically group a thread, but that appears to be
about the extent of it's capability. When you put a [DB2-L] as the first
characters in the subject, you have effectively negated what little
threading ability outlook has.


So, if you were to put a [DB2-L] header line in the subject, and 10 people
were to reply to the message, there would likely be many variations during
the thread in the response subject line depending on the email client, such
as:

RE: [DB2-L] subject
[DB2-L] RE:subject
RE: subject
RE:RE:subject
ANTWERP:[ DB2-L] subject
[DB2-L] ANT: RE: subject
RE:[DB2-L] RE:RE: subject


So, in Outlook, instead of a "subject" mail grouped with the related
responses, the postings would be all over the place. On smaller lists with
relatively few postings, this behavior, while undesirable, is tolerable. It
becomes completely unmanageable in large lists. In my lserv experience,
most lists start off with a subject header, but quickly drop the practice
after the list grows.

I can name different mail clients that treat this behavior in the subject
line in different manners, but cannot think of any email client that cannot
filter on the email address. Since all mail from this list already comes
from DB2-L@... then adding a subject line of DB2-L would seem to be
unnecessary, and burdensome to some of your subscribers. If someone wishes
to filter and move posts from this list to a different folder, then they
just need to check the sender's address for DB2-L.

If this subject line change were to be implemented, then I would likely
unsubscribe, since changing email clients isn't an option. I'm sure that
this isn't earth shattering in the scope of things and the sound of my
departure is the falling tree in an empty forest, but I'd guess I'm not the
only one that would be negatively affected. I'd hate to lose the DB2-L
resource after 10 years or so, but the aggravation of not being able to
logically follow a thread and all it's responses in a list that receives
hundreds of messages a week on dozens of different topics outweighs it's
interactive usefulness.

So, before dropping out, I thought I would at least point out before the
change is implemented that something you are intending to implement to aid
subscribers may in fact negatively impact a large number of them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Gunning [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:59 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Message from Chief List Admin

This weekend we will be adding [DB2-L] to the subject line of all posts to
help you in setting your mail filter and to easily recognize posts from
DB2-L. If you have any questions or concerns reqarding this, contact me
offline at pgunningatgunningtsdotcom.
<SNIP>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Brett Walters

Re: Message from Chief List Admin
(in response to Thomas H)
In Novell Groupwise, we can use wildcards on the Subject like *DB2-L* to
filter or send to a specific folder. Phil's plan would help, although I
believe I already achieve the same results by sending all messages To:
*IDUGDB2* to a specific folder...


.........................................
Brett Walters
Database Analyst
UGI Utilities, Inc.
225 Morgantown Rd.
Reading, PA 19611-1949
610-736-5518
[login to unmask email]

>>> [login to unmask email] 12/09 12:50 PM >>>

Rather than keeping it private, I would prefer to discuss it in public
so that others can also see the replies.

I would ask that you consider the implications of this before
proceeding to implement this change.

Placing a keyword in a subject plays havoc with many email clients
because of the inconsistency apps have in treating the "reply to"
portion of the subject line, and the relatively weak threading ability
of other email clients.

Outlook, as a big example (and I would guess others as well), can only
thread a subject alphabetically. It minimally appears to be able to
ignore "RE:"'(s) in a thread to logically group a thread, but that
appears to be about the extent of it's capability. When you put a
[DB2-L] as the first characters in the subject, you have effectively
negated what little threading ability outlook has.


So, if you were to put a [DB2-L] header line in the subject, and 10
people were to reply to the message, there would likely be many
variations during the thread in the response subject line depending on
the email client, such as:

RE: [DB2-L] subject
[DB2-L] RE:subject
RE: subject
RE:RE:subject
ANTWERP:[ DB2-L] subject
[DB2-L] ANT: RE: subject
RE:[DB2-L] RE:RE: subject


So, in Outlook, instead of a "subject" mail grouped with the related
responses, the postings would be all over the place. On smaller lists
with relatively few postings, this behavior, while undesirable, is
tolerable. It becomes completely unmanageable in large lists. In my
lserv experience, most lists start off with a subject header, but
quickly drop the practice after the list grows.

I can name different mail clients that treat this behavior in the
subject line in different manners, but cannot think of any email client
that cannot filter on the email address. Since all mail from this list
already comes from DB2-L@... then adding a subject line of DB2-L would
seem to be unnecessary, and burdensome to some of your subscribers. If
someone wishes to filter and move posts from this list to a different
folder, then they just need to check the sender's address for DB2-L.

If this subject line change were to be implemented, then I would
likely unsubscribe, since changing email clients isn't an option. I'm
sure that this isn't earth shattering in the scope of things and the
sound of my departure is the falling tree in an empty forest, but I'd
guess I'm not the only one that would be negatively affected. I'd hate
to lose the DB2-L resource after 10 years or so, but the aggravation of
not being able to logically follow a thread and all it's responses in a
list that receives hundreds of messages a week on dozens of different
topics outweighs it's interactive usefulness.

So, before dropping out, I thought I would at least point out before
the change is implemented that something you are intending to implement
to aid subscribers may in fact negatively impact a large number of them.



-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Gunning [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:59 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Message from Chief List Admin

This weekend we will be adding [DB2-L] to the subject line of all
posts to help you in setting your mail filter and to easily recognize
posts from DB2-L. If you have any questions or concerns reqarding this,
contact me offline at pgunningatgunningtsdotcom.
<SNIP>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office,
send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The
IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find
out the latest on IDUG conferences at
http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm



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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Zhong Shi

Re: Message from Chief List Admin
(in response to Brett Walters)
Good idea.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On Behalf Of Phil Gunning
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:59 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Message from Chief List Admin


This weekend we will be adding [DB2-L] to the subject line of all posts to help you in setting your mail filter and to easily recognize posts from DB2-L. If you have any questions or concerns reqarding this, contact me offline at pgunningatgunningtsdotcom.

Cheers, Phil
http://www.gunningts.com
Chief List Admin IDUG DB2-L
Co-Chair IDUG NA 2004 May 9-13, Orlando,Fl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". If you will be out of the office, send the SET DB2-L NO MAIL command to [login to unmask email] The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm