Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390

Tina Hilton

Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only
purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery, operational
utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually purchased it
yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package since we had
everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why we now have
to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY customers who
didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full utility suite
was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been running a small
system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is with a
non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.

Thanks,

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Phil Grainger

Re: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
(in response to Tina Hilton)
Hi Tina,

To answer your question another way, there ARE CA customers using ONLY CA utilities, so obviously not everyone bought the V7 suite

On the other hand, since IBM put RUNSTATS in one half and MODIFY STATISTICS in the other, it did make sense for anyone considering buying any of the IBM utilities to buy them all and not just half of them - maybe that's what they meant

Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
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-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:58 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390



I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery, operational utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually purchased it yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package since we had everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why we now have to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY customers who didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full utility suite was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been running a small system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is with a non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.

Thanks,

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

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cliff boley

Re: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Tina,
we have both the utility suite and CA (aka Platinum).
Our ODOT agencies use a combination of both, we looked at dropping one of
them but the manpower costs
of converting all of the batch jobs, training on the products not used
before, loss of productivity while staff learn the
new products, and weakness in both of the vendors lineup just wasn't worth
it to us.
It would have been a major project in itself, on top of all the other major
projects (see email subject;Re: DSN1COPY -- for replication) we're working
on.

I wrote a memo for management on the subject, you can have a copy if you
wish.

cliff:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:58 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390



I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only
purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery, operational
utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually purchased it
yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package since we had
everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why we now have
to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY customers who
didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full utility suite
was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been running a small
system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is with a
non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.

Thanks,

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

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James Paul Packham

Re: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
(in response to cliff boley)
Tina,

We are running DB2 v7 in Production and have both the full suite of
Utilities from IBM and a number of utilities from BMC. Personally I would
not recommend running DB2 without the full suite from IBM. This does not
mean that I am unhappy with the BMC products, but third party products do
things 'in their own way' and sometimes the results are not always what is
expected. For example we run a lot of SAP BW with DB2 as he back end
database, these application would not perform without running IBM's
Runstats, BMC's equivalent product just does not gather enough stats to
make the optimiser make the right decisions to choose the optimum access
path.

This is just one example, there are other areas where its more beneficial
to run the IBM utilities rather than third party products, (i.e modify
recovery etc.).

Hope this helps.

Paul


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Tina.Hilton
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Sent by: DB2 Subject: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
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12/12/2003 15:58
Please respond
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I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only
purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery,
operational utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually
purchased it yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package
since we had everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why
we now have to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY
customers who didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full
utility suite was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been
running a small system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is
with a non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.


Thanks,


Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Cathy Taddei

Re: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
(in response to James Paul Packham)
I'm sorry to hear IBM has dropped the option to buy just the diagnostic &
recovery suite. We are going to upgrade to V7 without the IBM tools (using
CA instead), but we were still trying to convince our management to buy the
IBM package to obtain Modify Recovery, because the CA version is not all
there yet (and they won't give a hint at when it will be!). We'll have a
lot tougher time at that now, especially since we've already begun
converting our COPY, LOAD, and RUNSTATS jobs over to the CA versions --
after all that effort, I doubt my management will turn around and buy the
IBM versions. I find IBM's position to be terribly disingenuous -- they
really should include Modify with the product, or at least allow us to
purchase it alone.
:(
Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On Behalf Of
[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:58 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390



I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only
purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery, operational
utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually purchased it
yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package since we had
everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why we now have
to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY customers who
didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full utility suite
was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been running a small
system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is with a
non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.

Thanks,

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Mukesh Sanghrajka

Re: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390
(in response to Cathy Taddei)
Tina ,
This the reply from our system's engineering group.
Tina,

Contrary to rumour, we have bought only the DB2 V7 Operational Utilities
(product no. 5655-E63). IBM did infer we were the only site in the UK to do
so (and possibly wider afield!)

The split between Operational and Diagnostic/Recovery utils is done with
important utilities in each part, so I can well understand the comments on
the viability of this. IBM may or may not have changed their marketing
subsequent to the original split. All I can say is that we've been running
like this for around 15 months, but ultimately we're going to have to
address the issues that half a toolset brings.

Regards,
Paul

Paul Mitchell
IMS & DB2 Team Leader
Bank of America NT & SA

Regards,
Mukesh

-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 12 December 2003 15:58
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Question re: utility suite for DB2 V7 on OS/390



I know that IBM now only sells the full utility suite, but has anyone only
purchased either of the smaller packages (diagnostic & recovery, operational
utilities)? We'd brought V7 in on trial, but haven't actually purchased it
yet. We had ordered only the diagnostic & recovery package since we had
everything else covered with BMC utilities. In explaining why we now have
to buy the full utility suite, IBM says they don't have ANY customers who
didn't buy the utility suite. They also claim that the full utility suite
was required in order to even run V7 (even though we've been running a small
system on V7 without the suite). I think the problem is with a
non-technical person trying to talk about technical issues.

Thanks,

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

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