SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2

Bill Lang

SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
Hello,

We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I
am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs
Non-SMS storage for DB2.

TIA,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

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Georg Peter

AW: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Bill Lang)
Bill,

http://www.frc.utn.edu.ar/campus/ibm/pdfs/sg245462.pdf

may give you some answers.

HTH.

With kind regards - mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Georg H. Peter c/o
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Bill Lang [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 13:45
An: [login to unmask email]
Betreff: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2

Hello,

We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I
am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs
Non-SMS storage for DB2.

TIA,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Hoang Ho

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Georg Peter)
SMS is the way to go. SMS will save you a lot of troubles which you are
currently have with non SMS.
I'm sure you will love it.

Hoang Ho
Technical Services
Voice:(714) 830-5362, Pager:877-226-4682
Email pager:[login to unmask email]
Email:[login to unmask email]


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Lang [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:45 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


Hello,

We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I
am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs
Non-SMS storage for DB2.

TIA,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Max Scarpa

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Hoang Ho)
I completely agree. Very easy to manage and few troubles if used in
'standard mode'. A little bit dangerous if you use

some 'new' features for DB2 (striping,EXTENDED ADRESSABILITY,....), Media
Manager and DB2 sometimes don't speak

to each other very well, so stay current with SMS/DB2 PTFs for these
topics.

Regards
Max Scarpa

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cliff boley

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Max Scarpa)
I could be wrong but it looked to me to be a choice between the DBAs
managing the
DASD or the SMS guy managing the DASD. Some one still has to keep track and
since DB2
is my responsibly I decided to keep track of space.
cliff:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:38 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


I completely agree. Very easy to manage and few troubles if used in
'standard mode'. A little bit dangerous if you use

some 'new' features for DB2 (striping,EXTENDED ADRESSABILITY,....), Media
Manager and DB2 sometimes don't speak

to each other very well, so stay current with SMS/DB2 PTFs for these
topics.

Regards
Max Scarpa

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Joel Goldstein

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to cliff boley)
If you manage the small number of performance critical objects, and let SMS
have the
rest you'll be fine. If you just give the whole world to SMS, carte blanch,
you will have performance issues.

Regards,
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lang" <[login to unmask email]>
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: DB2 Data Base Discussion List <[login to unmask email]>
> Poster: Bill Lang <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Hello,
>
> We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I
> am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs
> Non-SMS storage for DB2.
>
> TIA,
> Bill Lang
> Systems Programmer
> SUNY Upstate Medical University
> 315.464.8884
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
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http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>
>

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Max Scarpa

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
Maurice, not if SMS guy and DB2 guy are the same person, in this case
there's no problem :-)

Anyway I absolutely don't agree, a good SMS manager manages the storage
(DASD and tape, as in my case) ***AND*** (among other things) let the other
people (DB2,IMS,CICS etc etc) know via report/panel/application AD HOC the
(almost) instantaneous space usage. A 'privat' management of dasd is in 50%
+ of cases a waste of companies' precious resources as people 'tend' to
bring as more space as possible (space is in some manner POWER).

Via SMS is very very easy to manage space and let the users (and managers)
how space occupation is going and (via some DB2 tables, for instance) you
can do some prevision via linear interpolation, cubic spline and other
methods.

And skilled users must (at least) have a look to their space usage

This wearing my DASD/Tape manager cap.

Regards
Max Scarpa

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Carol A - CNF Powers

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Max Scarpa)
If you are using PAVs (parallel access volumes) this allows z/OS to have
more than one ucb and therefore more than one concurrent i/o going to
the same device. This can eliminate all but the nastiest of performance
issues. Talk with whoever in your organization does the HCD definitions
- they'll know whether they're defined or not. They might know them as
device types 3390A (alias) and 3390B (base). Do this if your hardware
supports it.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Joel Goldstein - Responsive Systems
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:59 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


If you manage the small number of performance critical objects, and let
SMS have the rest you'll be fine. If you just give the whole world to
SMS, carte blanch, you will have performance issues.

Regards,
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lang" <[login to unmask email]>
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: DB2 Data Base Discussion List <[login to unmask email]>
> Poster: Bill Lang <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
-----
>
> Hello,
>
> We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I

> am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs
> Non-SMS storage for DB2.
>
> TIA,
> Bill Lang
> Systems Programmer
> SUNY Upstate Medical University
> 315.464.8884
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
-------
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>
>

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Joel Goldstein

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Carol A - CNF Powers)
Yes, PAV removes most or almost all of the Queue time we used to see so much
of in the I/O records.
However, you can still kill a Shark, or Symettrix, or anything else - I've
seen quite a few dead boxes
that are running with PAV.
All the whiz bang hardware (and software) still does not remove the need for
some thought and intelligence when
setting up your environment - IF you care about performance.
Regards,
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Powers, Carol A - CNF" <[login to unmask email]>
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: DB2 Data Base Discussion List <[login to unmask email]>
> Poster: "Powers, Carol A - CNF" <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> If you are using PAVs (parallel access volumes) this allows z/OS to have
> more than one ucb and therefore more than one concurrent i/o going to
> the same device. This can eliminate all but the nastiest of performance
> issues. Talk with whoever in your organization does the HCD definitions
> - they'll know whether they're defined or not. They might know them as
> device types 3390A (alias) and 3390B (base). Do this if your hardware
> supports it.=20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
> Behalf Of Joel Goldstein - Responsive Systems
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:59 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
>
>
> If you manage the small number of performance critical objects, and let
> SMS have the rest you'll be fine. If you just give the whole world to
> SMS, carte blanch, you will have performance issues.
>
> Regards,
> Joel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Lang" <[login to unmask email]>
> To: <[login to unmask email]>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:44 AM
> Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> > Sender: DB2 Data Base Discussion List <[login to unmask email]>
> > Poster: Bill Lang <[login to unmask email]>
> > Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> -----
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I
>
> > am interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs=20
> > Non-SMS storage for DB2.
> >
> > TIA,
> > Bill Lang
> > Systems Programmer
> > SUNY Upstate Medical University
> > 315.464.8884
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> -------
> > Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
> home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
> page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
> http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
> [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
> at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nick Cianci

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
SMS
- Low DBA involvement,
- but pack placement & fragmentation goes up.

Performance is half a dozen of 1 & six of the other. There are things SMS
CAN do for you quite well (like generic pack placement vr.s available space
an IO resp. times), there are other things like Index & Table usage patterns
at certain key and critical times that you will no more about.

non-SMS
- Everything runs the way you want, you can get low fragmentation,
place your datasets so that you get 95%+ utilization of each device
- however the DBAs are the ones managing it, and this can be a
significant piece of work.

My recommendation.
- If you are experienced & have a small number of volumes do it
yourself. If you need to squeeze every last drop out of your DASD, do it
yourself, but be prepared to pay with effort.
- If on the other hand you have a large pool of DASD or are new to
the game let SMS handle it.
- ... and as Joel said if there are some critical bits manage them
yourselves, and let SMS have the rest.

Cheers,
Nick F. Cianci
IBM Certified Solutions Expert
- DB2 UDB V7.1 Database Administration for OS/390

Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Bill Lang
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 11:45 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2


Hello,

We are in the process of implementing SMS controlled storage and I am
interested in hearing about the pros and cons of using SMS vs Non-SMS
storage for DB2.

TIA,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

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Bill Lang

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Nick Cianci)
Thank You for all the advice.


I also reviewed the list archives for additional info.


To summarize what I have read & learned,

Leave the DB2 System tables Non-SMS
Use SMS for the application Tables.
Specify VOLUMES(*) in the STOGROUPs for the application tables
Do not use Guaranteed Space in the SMS POOLs
Set up separate pools for tables & indexes
We have a 2105-F20 SHARK w/PAV defined, to avoid the I/O queue time
There are 3 of us who will be doing the DBA & SMS functions.


Please let me know if I missed or misunderstood anything regarding
the posts on this topic.


Thanks,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

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[login to unmask email]

Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
(in response to Bill Lang)
Hi Bill,

You have to use SMS if any of your tables will use Extended Addressibility
(EA)

R/..Ed



Bill Lang
<[login to unmask email] To: [login to unmask email]
ATE.EDU> cc:
Sent by: DB2 Subject: Re: SMS vs Non-SMS storage for DB2
Data Base
Discussion List
<[login to unmask email]
.ORG>


01/20/2004 09:12
AM
Please respond
to DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






Thank You for all the advice.


I also reviewed the list archives for additional info.


To summarize what I have read & learned,

Leave the DB2 System tables Non-SMS
Use SMS for the application Tables.
Specify VOLUMES(*) in the STOGROUPs for the application tables
Do not use Guaranteed Space in the SMS POOLs
Set up separate pools for tables & indexes
We have a 2105-F20 SHARK w/PAV defined, to avoid the I/O queue time
There are 3 of us who will be doing the DBA & SMS functions.


Please let me know if I missed or misunderstood anything regarding
the posts on this topic.


Thanks,
Bill Lang
Systems Programmer
SUNY Upstate Medical University
315.464.8884

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. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email]
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