2 machines and no Sysplex

Steve Grimes

2 machines and no Sysplex
Hello, DB2 v7.1, Z/os 1.4 here.

Thanks much for the prior responses about the tractor/race car picture!
Here's today's question.

We are exploring the possibility of installing a 2nd processor (box.) (I
hope cross-posting to both lists isn't a violation of rules or etiquitte,
but I wasn't quite sure where to send this one.)

The basic reason is, we need more capacity for DB2, but expanding our
existing box will kill us on third party software license fees. (Cincom
seems to be our biggest problem.) We're avoiding the "sysplex"
arrangement apparantly because that would also subject us to more license
fees than we care to step up to. (I'm not sure about that.)

The idea is to have CICS, Cincom stuff, CA stuff etc on the current box,
but move DB2 to the other box.

Here are my questions.

1) Wouldn't this require all access to DB2 would be through the DDF?
(Including CICS access from the first box?) Is this possible/plausible?
2) Wouldn't I at least need a Cobol compiler for the 2nd box to compile our
stored procedures?
3) What are the right questions to ask?
4) Is there something better to consider?

Thanks!

Stg

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Tina Hilton

Re: 2 machines and no Sysplex
(in response to Steve Grimes)
We saved a ton on IBM software by getting certified as a sysplex, so "the
powers that be" at your company will hopefully look at the whole picture and
not just at third party costs.

As for having DB2 on a different lpar from CICS, I don't think that will
work. The only way to do distributed is to have DB2 on both lpars. I
believe you can compile your stored procedures on one machine and bind them
on the second, but I've never attempted something like this so I don't know
for sure. Assuming you use a scheduler (like CA-7), then you'll have to pay
for part of that on the second machine if you want to schedule jobs there.
We do this by having CA-7 running on one lpar and ICOM only on the second.

They should probably work with a company (we used Mainline, I think) to make
sure all the bases are covered and all the options are discussed.

Tina Hilton

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:06 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: 2 machines and no Sysplex

Hello, DB2 v7.1, Z/os 1.4 here.

Thanks much for the prior responses about the tractor/race car picture!
Here's today's question.

We are exploring the possibility of installing a 2nd processor (box.) (I
hope cross-posting to both lists isn't a violation of rules or etiquitte,
but I wasn't quite sure where to send this one.)

The basic reason is, we need more capacity for DB2, but expanding our
existing box will kill us on third party software license fees. (Cincom
seems to be our biggest problem.) We're avoiding the "sysplex"
arrangement apparantly because that would also subject us to more license
fees than we care to step up to. (I'm not sure about that.)

The idea is to have CICS, Cincom stuff, CA stuff etc on the current box,
but move DB2 to the other box.

Here are my questions.

1) Wouldn't this require all access to DB2 would be through the DDF?
(Including CICS access from the first box?) Is this possible/plausible?
2) Wouldn't I at least need a Cobol compiler for the 2nd box to compile our
stored procedures?
3) What are the right questions to ask?
4) Is there something better to consider?

Thanks!

Stg

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Tom Moulder

Re: 2 machines and no Sysplex
(in response to Tina Hilton)
1a - No
1b - Yes
1c - It depends

2 - Yes

3 - It Depends

4 - Perhaps (You can't say it depends everytime)

There are several factors that should be considered in deciding what to
do...

How do your current applications run? - CICS exclusively or batch and online
or legacy transactions kicked off now by CICS Transaction Gateway as a
result of a GUI user clicking on a button that passes a request to WAS. Are
you applications purely DB2 or is there other data stores as well to
consider? What are the user expectations in terms of performance and
usability? Characterize the CICS workload, i.e. are all CICS transactions
DB2 workload? Or are there reasons why the CICS would have to be on the
current box and could not move with DB2 to the new box?

Here are some initial thoughts on this ...

If all CICS workload is DB2 based, then move it with DB2 and you don't have
to do distributed. If not, then price out the cost of CICS on both
machines. Then you could setup CICS to ship all your DB2 workload to a CICS
AOR on the same box with DB2 and come at the work locally as opposed to
distributed. This could be done with a CTC and you would not HAVE to go to
a Sysplex.

I would also encourage you to review all of your software pricing options
with IBM at the least. The reason for the pushback on Parallel Sysplex is
that IBM does this thing called aggregated pricing and will charge you for
each product based on the total MSUs installed in the connected Sysplex
machines. The alternative to this would be to go to WLC (Workload License
Charges). There are several resources that can help you to understand this.
Last year's CMG had several presentations on this, my personal favorite was
presented by Al Sherkow. If you are a member of CMG, you could download
those presentations from the web site. He had an article appear in
z/Journal. Download it at
http://www.zjournal.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=682. As an overview of WLC,
IBM creates these new SMF records (type 89) that contain information about
software usage. There is a program you run that creates a spredsheet to
send to IBM for billing purposes. IBM then bills you based on the highest
usage for the software in a given interval. The measurements getting
translated to MSUs for billing. You can also set caps in z/OS to make sure
that your usage of DB2 does not exceed a certain threshold. There are more
options than can easily be desribed here.

WLC would give you the flexibility to install DB2 or CICS on both boxes and
not pay as though you were maxing out both boxes with usage of those
products. That would help you as far as your IBM charges. It would not
help you with CINCOM. The only thing that I believe with help you there is
if you are in a position where you could tell them that you will not
ocnntinue to use their product if they don't work with you on the pricing
model. I also realize that sometimes it is not easy to get to that point.
Most companies are pretty caution anyway and don't want to take such a step
unless they have a fool-proof plan B to execute if the software ocmpany does
not negotiate (Moulder's "No Bluff" rule of negotiating).

I hope that is a start for you.

Oh, one last thing that I thought of ... DB2 V8 has a new option --
Multi-Row Fetch. If your DDF overhead is the result of "Block Fetch" not
being enabled for some reason, then "Multi-Row fetch" is another option,
that is assuming you were interested in going to V8. I hesitated to mention
this at first, because it is not a quick fix for the issue. However, if you
have an interest, I can point you to several places where it is documented.
Also, I have a presentation that I put together back in November that
expolains what is involved to implement and the effects on CPU usage when
enabled.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:06 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: 2 machines and no Sysplex

Hello, DB2 v7.1, Z/os 1.4 here.

Thanks much for the prior responses about the tractor/race car picture!
Here's today's question.

We are exploring the possibility of installing a 2nd processor (box.) (I
hope cross-posting to both lists isn't a violation of rules or etiquitte,
but I wasn't quite sure where to send this one.)

The basic reason is, we need more capacity for DB2, but expanding our
existing box will kill us on third party software license fees. (Cincom
seems to be our biggest problem.) We're avoiding the "sysplex"
arrangement apparantly because that would also subject us to more license
fees than we care to step up to. (I'm not sure about that.)

The idea is to have CICS, Cincom stuff, CA stuff etc on the current box, but
move DB2 to the other box.

Here are my questions.

1) Wouldn't this require all access to DB2 would be through the DDF?
(Including CICS access from the first box?) Is this possible/plausible?
2) Wouldn't I at least need a Cobol compiler for the 2nd box to compile our
stored procedures?
3) What are the right questions to ask?
4) Is there something better to consider?

Thanks!

Stg

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Wayne Campbell

Re: 2 machines and no Sysplex
(in response to Tom Moulder)
We did it for the same reasons. We moved the DB2 and Web sphere to the
new Z800 box with Z/OSe and left the CICS and Batch processing on the
old. Z/OSe is a version of Z/OS with limitations. Batch was left on
the old because we have some batch programs written in Natural/Adabase
which was one of the 3rd party products that was costly to upgrade.

It seems a shame that it's cheaper to add all this additional hardware,
software and overhead because it's cheaper than upgrading some software.


The answers to your questions are:

1. YES. It's possible and not that hard to do.

2. No. You can compile it on the old box and run the load modules on
the
new box.

3. What will the additional overhead be? When IBM analyzed our work
load they greatly underestimated what DDF would use.

What processing can be moved to the new box?

What software can we get rid of or change to a less costly
Vendor.

4. This was the best we could come up with at the time.



Wayne Campbell
DB2 DBA
Administrative Office of the Courts
(360) 705-5268
Email: [login to unmask email]

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:06 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: 2 machines and no Sysplex

Hello, DB2 v7.1, Z/os 1.4 here.

Thanks much for the prior responses about the tractor/race car picture!
Here's today's question.

We are exploring the possibility of installing a 2nd processor (box.)
(I
hope cross-posting to both lists isn't a violation of rules or
etiquitte,
but I wasn't quite sure where to send this one.)

The basic reason is, we need more capacity for DB2, but expanding our
existing box will kill us on third party software license fees. (Cincom
seems to be our biggest problem.) We're avoiding the "sysplex"
arrangement apparantly because that would also subject us to more
license
fees than we care to step up to. (I'm not sure about that.)

The idea is to have CICS, Cincom stuff, CA stuff etc on the current box,
but move DB2 to the other box.

Here are my questions.

1) Wouldn't this require all access to DB2 would be through the DDF?
(Including CICS access from the first box?) Is this possible/plausible?
2) Wouldn't I at least need a Cobol compiler for the 2nd box to compile
our
stored procedures?
3) What are the right questions to ask?
4) Is there something better to consider?

Thanks!

Stg

------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
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[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Barbara Koenen

Re: 2 machines and no Sysplex
(in response to Wayne Campbell)
You can compile Cobol (SPs and otherwise) on one machine and bind the
packages / plans on another with no problems. You just send the load
code to the other machine rather than the source.

However I think you have other issues that will probably make the
compile question moot.

-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:04 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: 2 machines and no Sysplex


We saved a ton on IBM software by getting certified as a sysplex, so
"the powers that be" at your company will hopefully look at the whole
picture and not just at third party costs.

As for having DB2 on a different lpar from CICS, I don't think that will
work. The only way to do distributed is to have DB2 on both lpars. I
believe you can compile your stored procedures on one machine and bind
them on the second, but I've never attempted something like this so I
don't know for sure. Assuming you use a scheduler (like CA-7), then
you'll have to pay for part of that on the second machine if you want to
schedule jobs there. We do this by having CA-7 running on one lpar and
ICOM only on the second.

They should probably work with a company (we used Mainline, I think) to
make sure all the bases are covered and all the options are discussed.

Tina Hilton

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:06 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: 2 machines and no Sysplex

Hello, DB2 v7.1, Z/os 1.4 here.

Thanks much for the prior responses about the tractor/race car picture!
Here's today's question.

We are exploring the possibility of installing a 2nd processor (box.)
(I hope cross-posting to both lists isn't a violation of rules or
etiquitte, but I wasn't quite sure where to send this one.)

The basic reason is, we need more capacity for DB2, but expanding our
existing box will kill us on third party software license fees. (Cincom
seems to be our biggest problem.) We're avoiding the "sysplex"
arrangement apparantly because that would also subject us to more
license fees than we care to step up to. (I'm not sure about that.)

The idea is to have CICS, Cincom stuff, CA stuff etc on the current box,
but move DB2 to the other box.

Here are my questions.

1) Wouldn't this require all access to DB2 would be through the DDF?
(Including CICS access from the first box?) Is this possible/plausible?
2) Wouldn't I at least need a Cobol compiler for the 2nd box to compile
our stored procedures?
3) What are the right questions to ask?
4) Is there something better to consider?

Thanks!

Stg

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----
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home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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