Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina Hilton

Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems with
a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to fail,
and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which one(s)
are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it sure would
be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have Mainview/DB2 as
our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the dataset level to get
this information.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Tina Hilton
Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Martin Packer

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)




ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]



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This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rich Gugel

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Martin Packer)
What if you looked at it from a locking perspective?

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Packer [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 2:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space






ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer@u
k.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
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<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


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Discussion list
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This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Avram Friedman

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Rich Gugel)
Tina
Do you have Work / Temp in its own buffer pool.
If you do you can use the Mainview active thread display to view thread
related activity by buffer pool.

In a prior shop we used TMON for DB2,
When looking at active or recent history threads it was possible to
drill down to page set

Not wanting to leave many products out
With Omegamon DB2 I think object analysis can be used for this
information.

Avram Friedman

_____

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:31 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space



This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have
problems with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and
transactions to fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space.
I can guess which one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07
buffer pool, but it sure would be nice to know how much real disk space
it's using. We have Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way
to drill down to the dataset level to get this information.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Tina Hilton

Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Avram Friedman)
I'm not sure what you mean. The particular job I'm looking at right now is
an unload via DSNTIAUL, so it's only taking read locks. How can I use locks
to determine disk usage in DSNDB07?

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Gugel, Rich
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

What if you looked at it from a locking perspective?

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Packer [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 2:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space






ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer@u
k.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
We do have it isolated and I'm using I/Os in that buffer pool to see who are
the likely culprits, but I can't drill down to see actual disk space usage at
the time. For long-running threads, while there may have been a lot of work
space used cumulatively or earlier in the life of the thread, there may not
be right now so I could be unfairly accusing a job of causing the problem of
the moment. Of course I could be misunderstanding how Mainview displays the
information. I used to use TMON and remember drilling down to the page set
but have never figured out how to do it with Mainview. Which screens do you
use in Mainview to get this information?



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Friedman, Avram (IT)
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:32 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space



Tina

Do you have Work / Temp in its own buffer pool.

If you do you can use the Mainview active thread display to view thread
related activity by buffer pool.



In a prior shop we used TMON for DB2,

When looking at active or recent history threads it was possible to drill
down to page set



Not wanting to leave many products out

With Omegamon DB2 I think object analysis can be used for this information.



Avram Friedman



_____

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Hilton, Tina
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:31 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems with
a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to fail,
and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which one(s)
are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it sure would
be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have Mainview/DB2 as
our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the dataset level to get
this information.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Tina Hilton

Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
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_____

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does
not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.

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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned. I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Phil Grainger

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
A couple of sizing points

Firstly, the number of records in the sort/join phase(s) is not
necessarily the same as the number of rows in the result set (it's
probably more). Also the record length of a sort record is
sort_key_length PLUS result_record_length.

Also, are you getting RIDLIST access? Those RIDs are also likely to be
in DSNDB07


Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
[login to unmask email]


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:30
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The
select is a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows.
8M rows get unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My
coworker thought that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the
sort/work space needed for the query. An index is used on one table, but
the other gets scanned. I don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000
cyls so this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the
programmers are figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more
sure of what's using the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable
chunks too, we could change scheduling to keep them from executing at
the same time. I'm just having trouble figuring out how to determine
this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going
to be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk.
If you do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly
small you can count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_pack
[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com




"Hilton, Tina"

<[login to unmask email]

USE.COM>
To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]

Base Discussion
cc
List

<[login to unmask email]
Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space




09-12-04 20:31





Please respond to

DB2 Database

Discussion list

at IDUG









This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have
problems with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and
transactions to fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space.
I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but
it sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We
have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Phil Grainger)
I can't find that information in the historical trace data I have. I admit
I've never figured out how to get more than basic information from Mainview,
though.

The only errors I've ever seen on this system regarding the RID list is
"exceeded the RDS limit". We have MAXRBLK set to 64000.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Grainger, Phil
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:48 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

A couple of sizing points

Firstly, the number of records in the sort/join phase(s) is not
necessarily the same as the number of rows in the result set (it's
probably more). Also the record length of a sort record is
sort_key_length PLUS result_record_length.

Also, are you getting RIDLIST access? Those RIDs are also likely to be
in DSNDB07


Phil Grainger
Computer Associates
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125 752
[login to unmask email]


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:30
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The
select is a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows.
8M rows get unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My
coworker thought that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the
sort/work space needed for the query. An index is used on one table, but
the other gets scanned. I don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000
cyls so this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the
programmers are figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more
sure of what's using the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable
chunks too, we could change scheduling to keep them from executing at
the same time. I'm just having trouble figuring out how to determine
this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going
to be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk.
If you do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly
small you can count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
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"Hilton, Tina"

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Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
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09-12-04 20:31





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Discussion list

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This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have
problems with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and
transactions to fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space.
I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but
it sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We
have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Mike Vaughan

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
I don't think this is exactly what you are looking for, but I can pass along what we have done to identify threads that blow away the DSNDB07 space. We encounter this several times per day, usually with ad-hoc queries being the culprit. I really wish DB2 had a way to limit the amount of DB07 space a single thread can use so the impact of this wasn't so wide.
The main problem with trying to use an online monitor to identify the culprit is that by the time you know there's a problem, the offending thread is usually already gone. However, there is a view "PSSTAT" in Mainview that will show current users by page-set. From this you can drill-down to see who is currenly using DSNDB07, but this doesn't really tell you how much they are using (I've created a cusomized version of this to only display the DSNDB07 pagesets, but it's not actually all that useful).
When a thread receives a -904 due to a shortage in DSNDB07, there is a DSNT501I message written to the DB2MSTR address space with a resource name of "4K" (assuming 4K sort). We have some automation in place that picks up this message and issues a "-DIS DB(<DB2>DB07) SPACENAM(*) LIMIT(*) USE" command to see who is actually using DSNDB07 at the time of the error. As with using an online monitor, the problem with this approach is that in many cases the offending thread is also the one that received the -904 and is therefore gone by the time the display is issued.
For a better picture of what was happening, we selectively load the bufferpool accounting records for our bufferpool dedicated to DSNDB07 which will tell us which threads performed the most getpages to that bufferpool at that time. The problem with this approach is the records are an accumulation over the life of the thread, so a job that uses 1 page of dsndb07 1 million times will look the same as a job that uses 1 million pages all at once. This is still reasonably effective at pointing out single queries that take all of the space.
Apptune (BMC) also does a pretty good job of capturing information once you have a suspected thread. It can drill down to the specific query and from the object analysis you can find DSNDB07 getpage information for the query.

Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:30 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned. I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm


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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Mike Vaughan)
Thanks Mike. I figured the answer would be this. While this bad job was
running, I did a -dis db like the one you mention on DSNDB07 and it was using
most, if not all, of the 4K spaces. I guess I was hoping that there was
something I was thinking of that would give me the answers I need.

Tina

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Vaughan, Mike
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:48 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

I don't think this is exactly what you are looking for, but I can pass
along what we have done to identify threads that blow away the DSNDB07 space.
We encounter this several times per day, usually with ad-hoc queries being
the culprit. I really wish DB2 had a way to limit the amount of DB07 space a
single thread can use so the impact of this wasn't so wide.
The main problem with trying to use an online monitor to identify the
culprit is that by the time you know there's a problem, the offending thread
is usually already gone. However, there is a view "PSSTAT" in Mainview that
will show current users by page-set. From this you can drill-down to see who
is currenly using DSNDB07, but this doesn't really tell you how much they are
using (I've created a cusomized version of this to only display the DSNDB07
pagesets, but it's not actually all that useful).
When a thread receives a -904 due to a shortage in DSNDB07, there is a
DSNT501I message written to the DB2MSTR address space with a resource name of
"4K" (assuming 4K sort). We have some automation in place that picks up this
message and issues a "-DIS DB(<DB2>DB07) SPACENAM(*) LIMIT(*) USE" command to
see who is actually using DSNDB07 at the time of the error. As with using an
online monitor, the problem with this approach is that in many cases the
offending thread is also the one that received the -904 and is therefore gone
by the time the display is issued.
For a better picture of what was happening, we selectively load the
bufferpool accounting records for our bufferpool dedicated to DSNDB07 which
will tell us which threads performed the most getpages to that bufferpool at
that time. The problem with this approach is the records are an accumulation
over the life of the thread, so a job that uses 1 page of dsndb07 1 million
times will look the same as a job that uses 1 million pages all at once.
This is still reasonably effective at pointing out single queries that take
all of the space.
Apptune (BMC) also does a pretty good job of capturing information once
you have a suspected thread. It can drill down to the specific query and
from the object analysis you can find DSNDB07 getpage information for the
query.

Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:30 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned. I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Martin Packer

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space

10-12-04 13:30


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]

.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Roger Miller

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Martin Packer)
We did make some improvements to work space monitoring in DB2 V8, adding a
new IFCID 0342 to monitor work space usage.

Roger Miller

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:40:59 +0000, Martin Packer
<[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
>that number tie in with your space calcs?
>
>Martin
>
>Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
>020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
>07802-245584)
>
>"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"
>
>Blog:
>http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer
@uk.ibm.com
>
>
>
> "Hilton, Tina"
> <[login to unmask email]
> USE.COM> To
> Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
> Base Discussion cc
> List
> <[login to unmask email] Subject
> ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
> space
>
> 10-12-04 13:30
>
>The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
>is
>a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
>unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
>that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
>for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
>I
>don't know how that affects the calculations.
>
>We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
>DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
>so
>this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
>figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
>the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
>change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
>having trouble figuring out how to determine this.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
>Of
>Martin Packer
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
>
>
>ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
>be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If
you
>do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
>count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.
>
>Martin
>
>Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
>020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
>07802-245584)
>
>"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"
>
>Blog:
>http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer
@uk
>
>.ibm.com
>
>
>
> "Hilton, Tina"
> <[login to unmask email]
> USE.COM> To
> Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
> Base Discussion cc
> List
> <[login to unmask email] Subject
> ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
>
>
> 09-12-04 20:31
>
>
>This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space
>in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
>with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
>fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess
which
>one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
>sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
>Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
>dataset level to get this information.
>
>
>Any suggestions will be appreciated.
>
>
>Tina Hilton
>
>
>Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services
>

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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Roger Miller)
That's a very good thing to add. Thanks for mentioning that Roger.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Roger Miller
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:52 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

We did make some improvements to work space monitoring in DB2 V8, adding a
new IFCID 0342 to monitor work space usage.

Roger Miller

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:40:59 +0000, Martin Packer
<[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
>that number tie in with your space calcs?
>
>Martin
>
>Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
>020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
>07802-245584)
>
>"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"
>
>Blog:
>http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer
@uk.ibm.com
>
>
>
> "Hilton, Tina"
> <[login to unmask email]
> USE.COM> To
> Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
> Base Discussion cc
> List
> <[login to unmask email] Subject
> ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
> space
>
> 10-12-04 13:30
>
>The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
>is
>a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
>unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
>that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
>for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
>I
>don't know how that affects the calculations.
>
>We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
>DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
>so
>this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
>figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
>the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
>change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
>having trouble figuring out how to determine this.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
>Of
>Martin Packer
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
>
>
>ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
>be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If
you
>do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
>count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.
>
>Martin
>
>Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
>020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
>07802-245584)
>
>"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"
>
>Blog:
>http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_packer
@uk
>
>.ibm.com
>
>
>
> "Hilton, Tina"
> <[login to unmask email]
> USE.COM> To
> Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
> Base Discussion cc
> List
> <[login to unmask email] Subject
> ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
>
>
> 09-12-04 20:31
>
>
>This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space
>in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
>with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
>fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess
which
>one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
>sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
>Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
>dataset level to get this information.
>
>
>Any suggestions will be appreciated.
>
>
>Tina Hilton
>
>
>Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services
>

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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
It was around 1 million getpages. I'm still not sure how to calculate the
space, though. It does work some weeks, which is why I was hoping to figure
out a way to tell what is actually using disk space when this job runs.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:41 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space

10-12-04 13:30


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]

.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Tina Hilton

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
I meant to say 4 million getpages, not 1 million.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:41 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

It was around 1 million getpages. I'm still not sure how to calculate the
space, though. It does work some weeks, which is why I was hoping to figure
out a way to tell what is actually using disk space when this job runs.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:41 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]
.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space

10-12-04 13:30


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]

.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Martin Packer

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Tina Hilton)
Then that's about 16GB of data read. Assuming we don't read the page more
than once then that is also a reasonable estimate of space usage. Add a bit
for overhead, perhaps.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space

10-12-04 17:44


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






I meant to say 4 million getpages, not 1 million.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:41 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

It was around 1 million getpages. I'm still not sure how to calculate the
space, though. It does work some weeks, which is why I was hoping to
figure
out a way to tell what is actually using disk space when this job runs.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:41 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And does
that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]

.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk
space

10-12-04 13:30


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]


.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
<[login to unmask email]
USE.COM> To
Sent by: DB2 Data [login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc
List
<[login to unmask email] Subject
ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Avram Friedman

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Martin Packer)
I would think that getpages alone would be insufficient for estimating
sort / work usage

Perhaps (getpages / 2) / 'blocking_factor'

/ 2 because rows to be sorted need to be put into the buffer and
retrieved from the buffer at least

Blocking_factor because there is at least one get page associated with
every 'row' insert or retrieval. There are likely to be several rows
per get page.


The problem with this approach,
even if using the thread buffer pool counts form Mainview is a thread
can do many sorts, the method only works for one sort per thread.
Else where some one suggested that a sorted row is only written and read
once (hence my term / 2) I do not know if this is true however ... It
would surprise me if it was.

On the other hand I don't think one has to concern them selves with the
question has the page been physically written to the work data set. I
would assume that when the page is acquired for an insert its location
is determined and reserved in the data set for the duration of the sort
... Even if it never physically gets written out.

Av



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:49 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Then that's about 16GB of data read. Assuming we don't read the page
more than once then that is also a reasonable estimate of space usage.
Add a bit for overhead, perhaps.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

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I meant to say 4 million getpages, not 1 million.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:41 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

It was around 1 million getpages. I'm still not sure how to calculate
the space, though. It does work some weeks, which is why I was hoping
to figure out a way to tell what is actually using disk space when this
job runs.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:41 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And
does that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

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The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The
select is a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows.
8M rows get unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My
coworker thought that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the
sort/work space needed for the query. An index is used on one table, but
the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000
cyls so this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the
programmers are figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more
sure of what's using the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable
chunks too, we could change scheduling to keep them from executing at
the same time. I'm just having trouble figuring out how to determine
this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going
to be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk.
If you do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly
small you can count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

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09-12-04 20:31


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This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have
problems with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and
transactions to fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space.
I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but
it sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We
have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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Cathy Taddei

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Avram Friedman)
I recently read a fascinating white paper, "Understanding the DB2 for
z/OS Sort" by Chuck Hoover:
http://shareweb.share.org/proceedings/SH98/pprbyses/pprbyses83.html

There are many factors affecting DSNDB07 usage and the number of
getpages that will occur. But I could make a guess and say that in
general, with well behaved data (requiring only one merge pass), DSNDB07
requirement will be between 120% and 150% of the result set size. There
are many factors that could change this, like the use of parallelism,
record size larger than 4K, excessive bufferpool contention, etc.

HTH,
Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Friedman, Avram (IT)
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:08 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

I would think that getpages alone would be insufficient for estimating
sort / work usage

Perhaps (getpages / 2) / 'blocking_factor'

/ 2 because rows to be sorted need to be put into the buffer and
retrieved from the buffer at least

Blocking_factor because there is at least one get page associated with
every 'row' insert or retrieval. There are likely to be several rows
per get page.


The problem with this approach,
even if using the thread buffer pool counts form Mainview is a thread
can do many sorts, the method only works for one sort per thread.
Else where some one suggested that a sorted row is only written and read
once (hence my term / 2) I do not know if this is true however ... It
would surprise me if it was.

On the other hand I don't think one has to concern them selves with the
question has the page been physically written to the work data set. I
would assume that when the page is acquired for an insert its location
is determined and reserved in the data set for the duration of the sort
... Even if it never physically gets written out.

Av


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:49 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Then that's about 16GB of data read. Assuming we don't read the page
more than once then that is also a reasonable estimate of space usage.
Add a bit for overhead, perhaps.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

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I meant to say 4 million getpages, not 1 million.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:41 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

It was around 1 million getpages. I'm still not sure how to calculate
the space, though. It does work some weeks, which is why I was hoping
to figure out a way to tell what is actually using disk space when this
job runs.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:41 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

Tina, how many GETPAGES to "BP7" did the DSNTIAUL invocation do? And
does that number tie in with your space calcs?

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_pack
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10-12-04 13:30


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The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The
select is a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows.
8M rows get unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My
coworker thought that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the
sort/work space needed for the query. An index is used on one table, but
the other gets scanned.
I don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000
cyls so this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the
programmers are figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more
sure of what's using the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable
chunks too, we could change scheduling to keep them from executing at
the same time. I'm just having trouble figuring out how to determine
this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going
to be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk.
If you do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly
small you can count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://barney.adtech.internet.ibm.com/pilot/weblogs/comments/martin_pack
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"Hilton, Tina"
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Subject
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space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG



This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk
space in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have
problems with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and
transactions to fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space.
I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but
it sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We
have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services

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Missy Case

Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space
(in response to Cathy Taddei)
These are some tips we pass along to the programmers. This is also what I
use to calculate the space I'll need in DSNDB07:
DB2 sortrec size = sum(colsize of all returned columns) + keysize. Return
as few rows as possible, & also return as few columns as possible.

The 4k limit of the recsize flips you into a tag sort. A Tag sort leaves
the record behind and sorts only the keys using a 6 byte tag place holder.
Then the records are reclaimed using the tag. This is a very expensive
process it adds 8700 to your path length for each record sorted, over and
above the cost of the normal sort.

Return & Sort as few rows as possible. The DB2 sort tree has a max
of 16000 nodes * 2 for sort in/out which yields 32000 records max per merge
pass. So, the number of merge passes is a key factor in the sort overhead.

Missy Case
FDR
701-275-6358




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Thanks Mike. I figured the answer would be this. While this bad job was
running, I did a -dis db like the one you mention on DSNDB07 and it was
using
most, if not all, of the 4K spaces. I guess I was hoping that there was
something I was thinking of that would give me the answers I need.

Tina

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Vaughan, Mike
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:48 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space

I don't think this is exactly what you are looking for, but I can pass
along what we have done to identify threads that blow away the DSNDB07
space.
We encounter this several times per day, usually with ad-hoc queries being
the culprit. I really wish DB2 had a way to limit the amount of DB07 space
a
single thread can use so the impact of this wasn't so wide.
The main problem with trying to use an online monitor to identify the
culprit is that by the time you know there's a problem, the offending
thread
is usually already gone. However, there is a view "PSSTAT" in Mainview
that
will show current users by page-set. From this you can drill-down to see
who
is currenly using DSNDB07, but this doesn't really tell you how much they
are
using (I've created a cusomized version of this to only display the DSNDB07
pagesets, but it's not actually all that useful).
When a thread receives a -904 due to a shortage in DSNDB07, there is a
DSNT501I message written to the DB2MSTR address space with a resource name
of
"4K" (assuming 4K sort). We have some automation in place that picks up
this
message and issues a "-DIS DB(<DB2>DB07) SPACENAM(*) LIMIT(*) USE" command
to
see who is actually using DSNDB07 at the time of the error. As with using
an
online monitor, the problem with this approach is that in many cases the
offending thread is also the one that received the -904 and is therefore
gone
by the time the display is issued.
For a better picture of what was happening, we selectively load the
bufferpool accounting records for our bufferpool dedicated to DSNDB07 which
will tell us which threads performed the most getpages to that bufferpool
at
that time. The problem with this approach is the records are an
accumulation
over the life of the thread, so a job that uses 1 page of dsndb07 1 million
times will look the same as a job that uses 1 million pages all at once.
This is still reasonably effective at pointing out single queries that take
all of the space.
Apptune (BMC) also does a pretty good job of capturing information once
you have a suspected thread. It can drill down to the specific query and
from the object analysis you can find DSNDB07 getpage information for the
query.

Mike.
-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Hilton, Tina
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:30 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


The job I've been looking at this week is executing DSNTIAUL. The select
is
a join of 2 tables, one with 18M and the other with 16M rows. 8M rows get
unloaded in the job, with a row length of 170 bytes. My coworker thought
that you take the size of the result x 2 to get the sort/work space needed
for the query. An index is used on one table, but the other gets scanned.
I
don't know how that affects the calculations.

We have what I think is a ridiculous amount of disk space allocated to
DSNDB07 (over 33,000 cylinders). We're increasing it again by 11,000 cyls
so
this particular weekly job doesn't kill us again while the programmers are
figuring out how to change the job. If I can be more sure of what's using
the disk space and found other jobs taking sizable chunks too, we could
change scheduling to keep them from executing at the same time. I'm just
having trouble figuring out how to determine this.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of
Martin Packer
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:55 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space





ROT: Isn't a page read once from Sort work? Hence space usage is going to
be simple to estimate. Except for the split between memory and disk. If you
do no real I/Os it's all in memory. If your pool is absurdly small you can
count it as all on disk. AT THIS LEVEL OF (IN) ACCURACY.

Martin

Martin Packer, MBCS CITP Martin Packer/UK/IBM
020-8832-5167 in the UK (+44) (MOBX 273643, Internal 7-325167, Mobile
07802-245584)

"Borrowing your watch and using it to tell you which way South is"

Blog:
http://[login to unmask email]

.ibm.com



"Hilton, Tina"
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USE.COM> To
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ORG> Finding usage of DSNDB07 disk space


09-12-04 20:31


Please respond to
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This is for DB2 V7 on OS/390 2.10. How can I determine how much disk space
in DSNDB07 is being used by each thread? We occasionally have problems
with a rogue job filling it up and causing other jobs and transactions to
fail, and I'd like to verify who's using how much space. I can guess which
one(s) are guilty based on the fetches in the DSNDB07 buffer pool, but it
sure would be nice to know how much real disk space it's using. We have
Mainview/DB2 as our monitor, but I can't find a way to drill down to the
dataset level to get this information.


Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Tina Hilton


Random House Bertelsmann Shared Services


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