Largest Independent software company Prior to 85

Avram Friedman

Largest Independent software company Prior to 85
Trick question,
During this era many software companies were truly independent and not
subject to public disclosure of there financial conditions.
A few notable exceptions were BMC and Boole and Babbage that just went
public at about that time.
BMC of course was (and still is) the smallest company listed on the
NYSE. I am sure it had something to do with what there tea shirts use
to say "Best Little Software House in Texas". If I had to make a guess
as to who was the biggest I would think UCC (now CA) or the company that
originally was SYNCSORT. In terms of the most customers and the widest
product dissolution I would guess Dial core (DYL360 etc) and there
famous software for a dollar campaign. Among other things the president
of Dial made the world wide (non US) announcement of MVS for IBM.

Av Friedman

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Tom Moulder
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:58 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

There are probably those that would argue with you about the inference
that TOTAL was not a "real-dbms".

How many on the list know the name of the largest Independent Software
Vendor in the world as of 1985? Independent means that they only sold
software (so leave out IBM, DEC etc.)

That was just 19 years ago ... Well, it may be a real test for those on
the list that were still in grade school.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Isaac Yassin
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:49 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hi,
ISAM is being phased out by IBM. You'll need to move/migrate those
applications to a "real DBMS " ( may I suggest DB2 :-) ).
Anyway this should not be a hindrance to dump the 3380 .
You can use the regular mod-9 (3x3390) and together with PAV it's a
winner (use dynamic PAV).

Isaac Yassin
DBMS & IT Consulting
IBM Certified Solution Expert
DB2 V7 for OS/390 & z/OS
IBM Certified Database Administrator
DB2 UDB V8.1 for z/OS



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:56 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hello,

Regarding:

>> How big is your DASD configuration?

Only about 400 volumes at present, so I don't think the 4096 limit is a
problem for us.

>>And get OUT of those 3380s if you have to swap the blasted things
>>one-for-one with 3390s. What are you using that ancient architecture
>>for, anyway?

Noted. But, um, we still have folks here using ISAM! Mostly the 3380's
are tried to our Cincom TOTAL (pre-SUPRA) files.

Thank you for the responses. I'm collecting them so I can wrap them
into a note to the group managing the acquisition and configuration.

Stg

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Tom Moulder

Re: Largest Independent software company Prior to 85
(in response to Avram Friedman)
Av

There were several software companies that were privately held and as a
result did not disclose their finances. Most notable of these -- SAS --
still is today. So, the answer would be of those that were publicly traded
and as a result produced audited financials that were verifiable. Also, I
worked for a software company when it was privately held and know that in
that situation it is in the best interest of the private owner to show as
little profit as possible for tax purposes and to write off as much as
possible in expenses without breaking any laws.

The largest ISV in 1985 was CINCOM the makers of TOTAL. A place that was
not long-lived. Or as some would say, a flash in the pan.

BMC at the time was not public and had revenues less than $10 Million
dollars. Its rise in revenue in the late '80s and early '90s was
astronomical. Especially after it went public in August of 1988.

Boole was bigger than BMC for many of those years. And privately held
Candle was also a very large software company. UCC was large at the time,
but I'm not sure exactly where they ranked. As I grow older, my memory
seems to fade just a little. And, of course, CA became the largest as a
result of the acquistions that they made.

Now, the king of the hill is Microsoft. However, I'm lobbying to exclude
them since they have become a hardware manufacturer as well as a software
maker.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


While I'm going down memory lane ...

IMS as I recall had its origins as DL/I during development, but was
primarily marketed as IMS. Some of this confusion ocmes about because IMS
tried to do it all back then -- it provided both the database management
system AND the online teleprocessing monitor system. The database was
separated out and paired with CICS as IMS/DB except when you ran CICS under
VSE and then it was called DL/I. But I'm sure that you, AV, could provide a
lot more details that I could. Not that I'm saying you are older than me,
just that you have more experience than I do with the early days of IMS.


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Friedman, Avram (IT)
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:11 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] Largest Independent software company Prior to 85

Trick question,
During this era many software companies were truly independent and not
subject to public disclosure of there financial conditions.
A few notable exceptions were BMC and Boole and Babbage that just went
public at about that time.
BMC of course was (and still is) the smallest company listed on the NYSE. I
am sure it had something to do with what there tea shirts use to say "Best
Little Software House in Texas". If I had to make a guess as to who was the
biggest I would think UCC (now CA) or the company that originally was
SYNCSORT. In terms of the most customers and the widest product dissolution
I would guess Dial core (DYL360 etc) and there famous software for a dollar
campaign. Among other things the president of Dial made the world wide (non
US) announcement of MVS for IBM.

Av Friedman

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Tom Moulder
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:58 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

There are probably those that would argue with you about the inference that
TOTAL was not a "real-dbms".

How many on the list know the name of the largest Independent Software
Vendor in the world as of 1985? Independent means that they only sold
software (so leave out IBM, DEC etc.)

That was just 19 years ago ... Well, it may be a real test for those on the
list that were still in grade school.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Isaac Yassin
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:49 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hi,
ISAM is being phased out by IBM. You'll need to move/migrate those
applications to a "real DBMS " ( may I suggest DB2 :-) ).
Anyway this should not be a hindrance to dump the 3380 .
You can use the regular mod-9 (3x3390) and together with PAV it's a winner
(use dynamic PAV).

Isaac Yassin
DBMS & IT Consulting
IBM Certified Solution Expert
DB2 V7 for OS/390 & z/OS
IBM Certified Database Administrator
DB2 UDB V8.1 for z/OS



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:56 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hello,

Regarding:

>> How big is your DASD configuration?

Only about 400 volumes at present, so I don't think the 4096 limit is a
problem for us.

>>And get OUT of those 3380s if you have to swap the blasted things
>>one-for-one with 3390s. What are you using that ancient architecture
>>for, anyway?

Noted. But, um, we still have folks here using ISAM! Mostly the 3380's are
tried to our Cincom TOTAL (pre-SUPRA) files.

Thank you for the responses. I'm collecting them so I can wrap them into a
note to the group managing the acquisition and configuration.

Stg

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
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Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004


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Bill Brown

Re: Largest Independent software company Prior to 85
(in response to Tom Moulder)
how 'bout MSA

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Avram Friedman

Re: Largest Independent software company Prior to 85
(in response to Bill Brown)
Thanks Tom,
I did not mention SAS because it was an out growth of the University on
South? Carolina so it did not fit the use of the word 'independent' you
proposed. "Independent means that they only sold software" SAS
software was a sideline not the main business. If you consider SAS let
me point out that it was not the most successful statistical package of
its day ... Its big break came from Standard Oil publishing sample SAS
code on the share tape to process SMF data. Other packages bigger than
SAS were
SPSS (still going strong) then from the University of Chicago,
OSIRUIS from the University of Michigan,
WISTAB (Wisconsin Tabulator) from the State of Wisconsin,
and with out a doubt the most widely used stats package of the age was
BIOMED (Don't recall who built it). It worked on the largest number of
platforms and operating systems.

I found this document that gives an IBM slanted history of IMS if any
one is interested

http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/374/blackman.html

Av

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Tom Moulder
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:38 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Largest Independent software company Prior to 85

Av

There were several software companies that were privately held and as a
result did not disclose their finances. Most notable of these -- SAS --
still is today. So, the answer would be of those that were publicly
traded and as a result produced audited financials that were verifiable.
Also, I worked for a software company when it was privately held and
know that in that situation it is in the best interest of the private
owner to show as little profit as possible for tax purposes and to write
off as much as possible in expenses without breaking any laws.

The largest ISV in 1985 was CINCOM the makers of TOTAL. A place that
was not long-lived. Or as some would say, a flash in the pan.

BMC at the time was not public and had revenues less than $10 Million
dollars. Its rise in revenue in the late '80s and early '90s was
astronomical. Especially after it went public in August of 1988.

Boole was bigger than BMC for many of those years. And privately held
Candle was also a very large software company. UCC was large at the
time, but I'm not sure exactly where they ranked. As I grow older, my
memory seems to fade just a little. And, of course, CA became the
largest as a result of the acquistions that they made.

Now, the king of the hill is Microsoft. However, I'm lobbying to
exclude them since they have become a hardware manufacturer as well as a
software maker.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


While I'm going down memory lane ...

IMS as I recall had its origins as DL/I during development, but was
primarily marketed as IMS. Some of this confusion ocmes about because
IMS tried to do it all back then -- it provided both the database
management system AND the online teleprocessing monitor system. The
database was separated out and paired with CICS as IMS/DB except when
you ran CICS under VSE and then it was called DL/I. But I'm sure that
you, AV, could provide a lot more details that I could. Not that I'm
saying you are older than me, just that you have more experience than I
do with the early days of IMS.


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Friedman, Avram (IT)
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:11 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] Largest Independent software company Prior to 85

Trick question,
During this era many software companies were truly independent and not
subject to public disclosure of there financial conditions.
A few notable exceptions were BMC and Boole and Babbage that just went
public at about that time.
BMC of course was (and still is) the smallest company listed on the
NYSE. I am sure it had something to do with what there tea shirts use
to say "Best Little Software House in Texas". If I had to make a guess
as to who was the biggest I would think UCC (now CA) or the company that
originally was SYNCSORT. In terms of the most customers and the widest
product dissolution I would guess Dial core (DYL360 etc) and there
famous software for a dollar campaign. Among other things the president
of Dial made the world wide (non
US) announcement of MVS for IBM.

Av Friedman

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Tom Moulder
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:58 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

There are probably those that would argue with you about the inference
that TOTAL was not a "real-dbms".

How many on the list know the name of the largest Independent Software
Vendor in the world as of 1985? Independent means that they only sold
software (so leave out IBM, DEC etc.)

That was just 19 years ago ... Well, it may be a real test for those on
the list that were still in grade school.

Tom Moulder
TREX Associates, Inc.
9728 Delmonico
Keller, TX. 76248-9559
+1 817-741-5549 Office
+1 817-741-5548 Fax
+1 832-858-4279 Mobile
www.t-rex-associates.com Web Site


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Isaac Yassin
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 2:49 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hi,
ISAM is being phased out by IBM. You'll need to move/migrate those
applications to a "real DBMS " ( may I suggest DB2 :-) ).
Anyway this should not be a hindrance to dump the 3380 .
You can use the regular mod-9 (3x3390) and together with PAV it's a
winner (use dynamic PAV).

Isaac Yassin
DBMS & IT Consulting
IBM Certified Solution Expert
DB2 V7 for OS/390 & z/OS
IBM Certified Database Administrator
DB2 UDB V8.1 for z/OS



-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:56 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Shark configuration questions

Hello,

Regarding:

>> How big is your DASD configuration?

Only about 400 volumes at present, so I don't think the 4096 limit is a
problem for us.

>>And get OUT of those 3380s if you have to swap the blasted things
>>one-for-one with 3390s. What are you using that ancient architecture
>>for, anyway?

Noted. But, um, we still have folks here using ISAM! Mostly the 3380's
are tried to our Cincom TOTAL (pre-SUPRA) files.

Thank you for the responses. I'm collecting them so I can wrap them
into a note to the group managing the acquisition and configuration.

Stg

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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