non-Shark IMS historical discussion

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non-Shark IMS historical discussion
Dear Esteemed List,

My belated thanks to Avram for reminding everyone how old I am. :) That
brings to five (5) the total number of people who have admitted to
actually reading my book, "The IMS Experts Guide". Egads! That was a
long time ago...

I used IMS in 1973 in a 360/55 production environment, and had some
'experiences' with it as a consultant a few years prior. At the time, *no
one* was talking about 'other' hierarchical DBMSs ... at the time academia
was still mulling through the developments within the Conference on Data
Systems Languages (CODASYL) regarding their network DBMS model.

This volunteer organization made up of industry and government people led
lots of language-related efforts (one of which resulted in the development
of Cobol). They formed a task force in the mid-1960s (1966 I think) that
was eventually called the Data Base Task Group. This group created an
approach to database storage and retrieval that was called the "Codasyl
approach", and led to the development of IDS and IDMS, the so-called
"network" DBMSs.

The sense at the time (1974-ish) was that network DBMSs were academically
correct and esthetically pleasing, while IMS was, well, Blue. When the
1980s arrived, IMS had "won" the contest, judging by the the relative
sizes of the customer bases. My opinion: In this era most of the
automation provided by DP (old acronym for IT) were for business data that
was essentially hierarchical. Hence, any navigational or data modeling
advantages provided by network models or DBMSs were minimized. People
understood 1-to-many, top-down data hierarchies, and IMS filled that niche
quite well.

Those interested in investigating the deep, dark past of DBMSs can search
on "Charles Bachman" (developer of IDS) and "Charles Babbage Institute"
(historical records of CODASYL).

Lock (first name) Lyon
Compuware Corp

Oh, and "These are my opinions only, they do not necessarily reflect those
of my employer, they are yours for free, and may be worth the price you
paid." -- LL





Internet references to clearly resolve this issue of what came first IMS
DL/1 or VANDL are hard to find, after all we are talking about an
on-line era that predated any thing like the internet as we know it
today ... I was a user of the WELL in the early 70's. I am fairly sure
from my own recolections that VANDL was the grand daddie hieraractal
system from which both DL/1 and IMS grew but the histories I managed to
find suggest other wise.

Maybe is Lyon Lockwood is following this thread he could comment on it
... Lyon wrote the first non IBM published IMS book I ever read (Not
counting AMDAHL Tech Topics)


[...snip...]

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Re: non-Shark IMS historical discussion
(in response to LL581@DAIMLERCHRYSLER.COM)
Lock,

Not only have I read and used your book, I still have my copy.

Carol Sutfin
Corporate DBA
AmSouth Bank
(205)261-5214
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01/03/2005 09:31
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Please respond
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Discussion list
at IDUG"






Dear Esteemed List,

My belated thanks to Avram for reminding everyone how old I am. :) That
brings to five (5) the total number of people who have admitted to actually
reading my book, "The IMS Experts Guide". Egads! That was a long time
ago...

I used IMS in 1973 in a 360/55 production environment, and had some
'experiences' with it as a consultant a few years prior. At the time, *no
one* was talking about 'other' hierarchical DBMSs ... at the time academia
was still mulling through the developments within the Conference on Data
Systems Languages (CODASYL) regarding their network DBMS model.

This volunteer organization made up of industry and government people led
lots of language-related efforts (one of which resulted in the development
of Cobol). They formed a task force in the mid-1960s (1966 I think) that
was eventually called the Data Base Task Group. This group created an
approach to database storage and retrieval that was called the "Codasyl
approach", and led to the development of IDS and IDMS, the so-called
"network" DBMSs.

The sense at the time (1974-ish) was that network DBMSs were academically
correct and esthetically pleasing, while IMS was, well, Blue. When the
1980s arrived, IMS had "won" the contest, judging by the the relative sizes
of the customer bases. My opinion: In this era most of the automation
provided by DP (old acronym for IT) were for business data that was
essentially hierarchical. Hence, any navigational or data modeling
advantages provided by network models or DBMSs were minimized. People
understood 1-to-many, top-down data hierarchies, and IMS filled that niche
quite well.

Those interested in investigating the deep, dark past of DBMSs can search
on "Charles Bachman" (developer of IDS) and "Charles Babbage Institute"
(historical records of CODASYL).

Lock (first name) Lyon
Compuware Corp

Oh, and "These are my opinions only, they do not necessarily reflect those
of my employer, they are yours for free, and may be worth the price you
paid." -- LL





Internet references to clearly resolve this issue of what came first IMS
DL/1 or VANDL are hard to find, after all we are talking about an
on-line era that predated any thing like the internet as we know it
today ... I was a user of the WELL in the early 70's. I am fairly sure
from my own recolections that VANDL was the grand daddie hieraractal
system from which both DL/1 and IMS grew but the histories I managed to
find suggest other wise.

Maybe is Lyon Lockwood is following this thread he could comment on it
... Lyon wrote the first non IBM published IMS book I ever read (Not
counting AMDAHL Tech Topics)


[...snip...]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
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http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm