[DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol

Joseph Fatula

[DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
I believe two different issues need to be considered.
#1: what compiler do you want to use?
#2: what load modules will be supported in the future?
These issues can be confusing, and I have to admit being somewhat
confused in the past as well.
My understanding is we should be using Enterprise COBOL, the latest
version of LE, for compiles. I believe this will likely compile most COBOL
II, COBOL LE, and Enterprise COBOL source code fine although I am not a
COBOL expert--there may be some relatively minor changes down the line. VS
COBOL source needs substantial changes (think partial rewrite or conversion
utility processing) to reenable successful compilation under Enterprise
COBOL or even LE or COBOL II. One thing I recall is commas, which COBOL 85
does not support but previous COBOLs do (they now cause Level "E"
diagnostics if I recall correctly).
From the CICS side, my understanding is the latest version of CICS,
3.1 (planned availability in March) and its follow-ons, do not support
execution of VS COBOL load modules--please see ALET 204-285 (CICS/TS 3.1)
dated 11/30/2004. If your shop has any VS COBOL modules around, now is the
time to ensure the source code is available; consider its conversion,
recompilation, and testing, to be prudent, in my opinion. Some of that
code dates to the days of punch cards and old tapes and could possibly have
gone missing. If you need to recover the source from the load modules, if
even possible in any way, I think now is the time rather than facing a
"Forced March" situation on a tight deadline. From a financial standpoint,
it may not make sense to do it now, but better to at least know what the
exposure is.

Joe Fatula

----- Forwarded by Joseph Fatula/PHEAA on 01/06/05 02:43 PM -----

"Chu, Pius"
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Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol

01/06/05 02:33 PM


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I am planning for DB2 V8 this year. There is no support of VS COBOL and
COBOL II under V8 but you could still run these COBOL modules under LE. I
like to know what other shops plan to do. Do we force all DB2 VS COBOL or
COBOL II programs to recompile now (if we can) under the new Enterprise
COBOL or let application area AWARE that any old COBOL programs need to
recompile when we have DB2 V8 must use the new COBOL compiler and there
might be differences. Is there other alternatives that you can think of?

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:54 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol


Hi Rich,

My understanding was, and I believe this applies to COBOL OS and COBOL II,
is that the V8 pre-compiler inserts COBOL code into the source that in not
compatible with either COBOL compilers.

The specifics and verification of this I personally have not explored as
yet, but I believe it is Unicode related.

Meanwhile, my answer would be that it is not supported and not
useable...(most/all of the time!).

Regards
Phil

________________________________________________________________________________


Phil McLaren
DB2 Systems Programming
Computer Science Corporation. Melbourne, Australia
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"Humphris,Richar
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We have many production programs still using os/vs cobol. And we know
that when we go to v8 that we could still use the v7 precompiler (at
least for one year anyway) which would allow us to still run those pgms
on v8 without any changes.

However, our question is: is using the v8 precompiler on os/vs cobol
"simply not supported", is it "unuseable" or is it "unuseable for new
function" (Like multi-row fetch)?

Thanks in advance,
Rich Humphris


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Rohn Solecki

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to Joseph Fatula)
Pius:
Based on what others have said, your question is really one about change control/management. The notes in Roger's presentation say that the old load modules should still work, but compiling/precompiling will be a problem. So you can do the COBOL upgrade followed by DB2 upgrade, or do both at once (because you will have to have the new COBOL compiler available simultaneously with DB2). If you do the simultaneous upgrade there are (at least) 2 scenarios for you to consider:
- what happens when someone needs to compile a quick production code change that no longer compiles ... first they run around in circles trying to figure out why code that has worked 'forever' no longer compiles. When they figure out that it is the DB2 upgrade, they will go the Vice President and say "... this production outage should have been only 1 hour, but it was 1 day because of DBA/DB2.
- you have no way of being certain that new performance problems are due to DB2 and not the COBOL upgrade


So on a simple CYA (Cover Your A...natomy) approach I think you would want to recommend that the COBOL upgrade, including recompiles, be done first. In theory, the COBOL should be straight forward, a compile with just a few new errors to be investigated and a few new code changes (on the other hand, Rich has a bigger problem because his obsolete compiler is much more obsolete, implying that there is more opportunity for compiler incompatibilities). After the COBOL change stabilizes the DB2 upgrade would be appropriate

Rohn Solecki

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of Chu, Pius
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:33 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol


I am planning for DB2 V8 this year. There is no support of VS COBOL and COBOL II under V8 but you could still run these COBOL modules under LE. I like to know what other shops plan to do. Do we force all DB2 VS COBOL or COBOL II programs to recompile now (if we can) under the new Enterprise COBOL or let application area AWARE that any old COBOL programs need to recompile when we have DB2 V8 must use the new COBOL compiler and there might be differences. Is there other alternatives that you can think of?

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email]On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:54 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol


Hi Rich,

My understanding was, and I believe this applies to COBOL OS and COBOL II,
is that the V8 pre-compiler inserts COBOL code into the source that in not
compatible with either COBOL compilers.

The specifics and verification of this I personally have not explored as
yet, but I believe it is Unicode related.

Meanwhile, my answer would be that it is not supported and not
useable...(most/all of the time!).

Regards
Phil

________________________________________________________________________________

Phil McLaren
DB2 Systems Programming
Computer Science Corporation. Melbourne, Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please
delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in
delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to
bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written
agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail
for such purpose.
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d P." To: [login to unmask email]
<Richard.Humphri cc:
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Sent by: DB2
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06/01/2005 08:55
AM
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Discussion list
at IDUG






We have many production programs still using os/vs cobol. And we know
that when we go to v8 that we could still use the v7 precompiler (at
least for one year anyway) which would allow us to still run those pgms
on v8 without any changes.

However, our question is: is using the v8 precompiler on os/vs cobol
"simply not supported", is it "unuseable" or is it "unuseable for new
function" (Like multi-row fetch)?

Thanks in advance,
Rich Humphris

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Richard Humphris

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to Rohn Solecki)
For the first year, after getting v8, you can still use the v7
precompiler to continue compiling/binding the old cobol pgms and I
suspect IBM has to support this for as long as v7 is supported. However
I also suspect IBM would want to bill you for still using db2 v7 after
that first year as well... if you continue to use the v7 precompiler.

And I also wonder (pure speculation on my part) if in the next version
of db2 ("db2 v8 + one") if ibm would support running the old cobol pgms
at all w/DB2? Apparently CICS has already been heading in this
direction.

Rich Humphris

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Jim Tonchick

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to Richard Humphris)
Rich,

Instead of trying to find out if OS/VS COBOL will still work, a better use of
your time would be to get IT management's backing on a project to finally get
rid of OS/VS COBOL. This should have been done in 1998 & 1999 as part of the
Y2K efforts. Even if DB2 V8 can "tolerate" OS/VS COBOL, CICS TS 2.3 or 3.1
won't. And, I don't believe z/OS 1.6 Language Environment will support it
either. The day will come when OS/VS COBOL will not work. Why wait until "the
gun is to your head." Upgrade to Enterprise COBOL ASAP.

It's like that old Fram oil filter commercial, "You can pay me now for a new
oil filter, or pay me later for a new engine." Don't let your company get too
far behind on software maintenance and old versions. If you continue to
wait, the price to upgrade only gets more expensive and eventually it will be
"cheaper" to outsource the effort.

Jim Tonchick

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Kirk Hampton

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to Jim Tonchick)
We tried to encourage our developers to convert little by little to
Enterprise COBOL,
but they are fairly set in their ways, and have continued to compile with
COBOL II,
which is compatible with the z/OS Language Environment at run-time. This
past year,
we were horrified to discover that the OS/VS COBOL compiler was still
available to
them via their Changeman development control screens, in addition to COBOL
II
and Enterprise COBOL. Is there a tool that would let us scan a Load Library
and
identify recently-compiled modules that were compiled using OS/VS COBOL ?

Kirk Hampton
DB2 z/OS Sysprog
IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 V7 Database Administration OS/390
Capgemini Energy
Dallas, Texas





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01/11/2005 12:16
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Please respond to
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Rich,

Instead of trying to find out if OS/VS COBOL will still work, a better use
of your time would be to get IT management's backing on a project to
finally get rid of OS/VS COBOL. This should have been done in 1998 & 1999
as part of the Y2K efforts. Even if DB2 V8 can "tolerate" OS/VS COBOL,
CICS TS 2.3 or 3.1 won't. And, I don't believe z/OS 1.6 Language
Environment will support it either. The day will come when OS/VS COBOL
will not work. Why wait until "the gun is to your head." Upgrade to
Enterprise COBOL ASAP.

It's like that old Fram oil filter commercial, "You can pay me now for a
new oil filter, or pay me later for a new engine." Don't let your company
get too far behind on software maintenance and old versions. If you
continue to wait, the price to upgrade only gets more expensive and
eventually it will be "cheaper" to outsource the effort.

Jim Tonchick


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John McKown

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to Kirk Hampton)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
> [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Kirk Hampton
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:33 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
>
>

<snip>

> and Enterprise COBOL. Is there a tool that would let us scan
> a Load Library
> and
> identify recently-compiled modules that were compiled using
> OS/VS COBOL ?
>
> Kirk Hampton
> DB2 z/OS Sysprog
> IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 V7 Database Administration OS/390
> Capgemini Energy
> Dallas, Texas

I don't know about the "recently" requirement. But I use ISPF / Search
For (option 3.14) and scan the load library for the character string
VSR1. OS/VS COBOL embeds this in the object module.

If you want something more advanced, get "COBANAL" from the CBT tape web
site at http://www.cbttape.org/cbtdowns.htm and look for file 321 and
maybe 330.


--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
Information Technology

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Jim McAlpine

Re: DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol
(in response to John McKown)
Try the COBANAL program (file 321) from the CBTTAPE web site at -

www.cbttape.org

Jim McAlpine

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Hampton [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 11 January 2005 14:33
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8 and os/vs cobol


We tried to encourage our developers to convert little by little to
Enterprise COBOL,
but they are fairly set in their ways, and have continued to compile with
COBOL II,
which is compatible with the z/OS Language Environment at run-time. This
past year,
we were horrified to discover that the OS/VS COBOL compiler was still
available to
them via their Changeman development control screens, in addition to COBOL
II
and Enterprise COBOL. Is there a tool that would let us scan a Load Library
and
identify recently-compiled modules that were compiled using OS/VS COBOL ?

Kirk Hampton
DB2 z/OS Sysprog
IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 V7 Database Administration OS/390
Capgemini Energy
Dallas, Texas





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Sent by: DB2 Data To:
[login to unmask email]
Base Discussion cc:
List Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 V8
and os/vs cobol
<[login to unmask email]
ORG>


01/11/2005 12:16
AM
Please respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion list
at IDUG






Rich,

Instead of trying to find out if OS/VS COBOL will still work, a better use
of your time would be to get IT management's backing on a project to
finally get rid of OS/VS COBOL. This should have been done in 1998 & 1999
as part of the Y2K efforts. Even if DB2 V8 can "tolerate" OS/VS COBOL,
CICS TS 2.3 or 3.1 won't. And, I don't believe z/OS 1.6 Language
Environment will support it either. The day will come when OS/VS COBOL
will not work. Why wait until "the gun is to your head." Upgrade to
Enterprise COBOL ASAP.

It's like that old Fram oil filter commercial, "You can pay me now for a
new oil filter, or pay me later for a new engine." Don't let your company
get too far behind on software maintenance and old versions. If you
continue to wait, the price to upgrade only gets more expensive and
eventually it will be "cheaper" to outsource the effort.

Jim Tonchick


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