xLOBs and daily management

Roland Schiradin

xLOBs and daily management
Max,

we have several BLOB tablespaces. Some of them are about 36GB.
A FC takes more then an hour.
In the begining it was a challange because there had been some bugs
in DB2 code. This application was portet from DB2 LUW to the DB2 z/OS.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 10:36 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


Hi ISaac
This application will manage object up to 1 Mb as CLOB and XML
each so 32k is not enough, we have to use xLOBs.

But I'm afraid it'll be a hard project, for space requested 'in
primis' and for managing object. BTW how big are dataspace
where xLOBs are used ? Just curious.

Happy new year 2006

Max Scarpa

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Max Scarpa

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Roland Schiradin)
HI Roland and thank you for your reply

Can you tell me what is your maintenance level or what PTF(s) did you
apply to your system for managing blobs ? How big is your BP for xLOBs (and
dataspace) ?

Actually the only problem I can see is LOG NO for recovery due to a wrong
application update. I presume you use LOG NO which (as Avram pointed out)
give some additional problems.

Thank you & best regards

Max Scarpa

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Roland Schiradin

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Max Scarpa)
Max,

seperate BP for all Lob's about 5000 Pages and because of DB2 V8 no dataspace.
It was a dataspace same size while running V7. I don't believe it makes sense
to use a large BP for those type of data.

Currently all of them are LOG YES but we will change some to LOG NO this year.
Only LOBs with updates will remain as LOG Yes. Those with just insert/read/delete
will be changed to LOG no.

So you may start with LOG YES and may change it later after the
application runs fine for some time. Ensure the size of your LOGARCH are big enough.

Look at INFOAPAR II13767 for LOBs maintenance. The last one we hit was fixed by PK08333.

We don't run any REORG or RUNSTATS for LOB tablespaces.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


HI Roland and thank you for your reply

Can you tell me what is your maintenance level or what PTF(s)
did you apply to your system for managing blobs ? How big is
your BP for xLOBs (and
dataspace) ?

Actually the only problem I can see is LOG NO for recovery due
to a wrong application update. I presume you use LOG NO which
(as Avram pointed out) give some additional problems.

Thank you & best regards

Max Scarpa

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Patrick Steurs

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Roland Schiradin)
Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not O
Hi,

Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not OK !

greetings,

Patrick Steurs.


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc
Sent: maandag 2 januari 2006 11:16
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Max,

seperate BP for all Lob's about 5000 Pages and because of DB2 V8 no
dataspace.
It was a dataspace same size while running V7. I don't believe it makes
sense to use a large BP for those type of data.

Currently all of them are LOG YES but we will change some to LOG NO this
year.
Only LOBs with updates will remain as LOG Yes. Those with just
insert/read/delete will be changed to LOG no.

So you may start with LOG YES and may change it later after the
application runs fine for some time. Ensure the size of your LOGARCH are
big enough.

Look at INFOAPAR II13767 for LOBs maintenance. The last one we hit was
fixed by PK08333.

We don't run any REORG or RUNSTATS for LOB tablespaces.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


HI Roland and thank you for your reply

Can you tell me what is your maintenance level or what PTF(s)
did you apply to your system for managing blobs ? How big is
your BP for xLOBs (and
dataspace) ?

Actually the only problem I can see is LOG NO for recovery due
to a wrong application update. I presume you use LOG NO which
(as Avram pointed out) give some additional problems.

Thank you & best regards

Max Scarpa

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Max Scarpa

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Patrick Steurs)
Hi all

Thank you for your new replies.

With best regards

Max Scarpa

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Roland Schiradin

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Max Scarpa)
Hi Patrick,

there are still several open APAR's open for LOB tablespaces.
If I follow Roger Miller these are existing never reported problems
running older version of DB2.

However we never run any REORG for our LOB tablespaces as it makes
no bif sense for us. What benefit did you see running REORG let's say tiwice
a month in term of performance or space?

We have a 36 GB LOB tablespace and running a REORG doesn't seem to improve
performance as the space reuse still apply even it's not REORGANIZED.

Perhaps I'm wrong.


Roland




-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Steurs Patrick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not O Hi,

Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not OK !

greetings,

Patrick Steurs.


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Schiradin,Roland
HG-Dir itb-db/dc
Sent: maandag 2 januari 2006 11:16
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Max,

seperate BP for all Lob's about 5000 Pages and because of DB2
V8 no dataspace.
It was a dataspace same size while running V7. I don't believe
it makes sense to use a large BP for those type of data.

Currently all of them are LOG YES but we will change some to
LOG NO this year. Only LOBs with updates will remain as LOG
Yes. Those with just insert/read/delete will be changed to LOG no.

So you may start with LOG YES and may change it later after the
application runs fine for some time. Ensure the size of your
LOGARCH are big enough.

Look at INFOAPAR II13767 for LOBs maintenance. The last one we
hit was fixed by PK08333.

We don't run any REORG or RUNSTATS for LOB tablespaces.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


HI Roland and thank you for your reply

Can you tell me what is your maintenance level or what PTF(s)
did you apply to your system for managing blobs ? How big is
your BP for xLOBs (and
dataspace) ?

Actually the only problem I can see is LOG NO for recovery due
to a wrong application update. I presume you use LOG NO which
(as Avram pointed out) give some additional problems.

Thank you & best regards

Max Scarpa

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author and do not necessarily reflect NBB viewpoints,
particularly when the content of this message, or part thereof,
is private by nature or does not fall within the professional
scope of its author."


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Robert Tilkes

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Roland Schiradin)
We currently have an application that has BLOBS from 1K to 3M in size. It
is populated from a distributed environment. We wrote a COBOL application
that would unload all of the rows and would accept a specific file format
and load the rows back in. There is a lot more the program can do, but as
someone earlier stated use the LOB-LOCATORS when possible. Follow the
Redbook on how to use locators and you should be alright. This application
has been running for about a year now.



Isaac Yassin
<[login to unmask email]
QINT.NET> From
Isaac Yassin
Sent by: DB2 <[login to unmask email]>
Data Base To
Discussion [login to unmask email]
List cc
<[login to unmask email]
2-L.ORG> Subject
Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily
management


12/31/2005
05:33 AM
Please
respond to
DB2 Database
Discussion
list at IDUG
<[login to unmask email]
UGDB2-L.ORG>





Hi Max,

Happy new year 2006 - that's near 2GB :-)))

Currently we don't have the @#$@ LOBZ, so I don't have number.
You'll have to rely on locators as much as you can and really move around
those BIG objects as last resort.
We were happy to ditch them, but we were lucky.
Watch for I/O and paging.

Isaac Yassin

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 11:36 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Hi ISaac
This application will manage object up to 1 Mb as CLOB and XML each so 32k
is not enough, we have to use xLOBs.

But I'm afraid it'll be a hard project, for space requested 'in primis' and
for managing object. BTW how big are dataspace where
xLOBs are used ? Just curious.

Happy new year 2006

Max Scarpa

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Patrick Steurs

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Robert Tilkes)
Hi Roland,

Problem: after a reorg of a LOB on second level of high level spacemap
page does not seem to be consumed; he just gets bigger and bigger taking
extends. ( we are on db2 v7 sp1 )
For us, this is a problem, as we do lot of inserts & deletes of tables
containing lobs.
To avoid extending these lob-tablespaces, we created a
drop-recreate-procedure for these lob-tablespaces. This works fine.

greetings,

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc
Sent: dinsdag 3 januari 2006 0:41
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Hi Patrick,

there are still several open APAR's open for LOB tablespaces.
If I follow Roger Miller these are existing never reported problems
running older version of DB2.

However we never run any REORG for our LOB tablespaces as it makes no
bif sense for us. What benefit did you see running REORG let's say
tiwice a month in term of performance or space?

We have a 36 GB LOB tablespace and running a REORG doesn't seem to
improve performance as the space reuse still apply even it's not
REORGANIZED.

Perhaps I'm wrong.


Roland




-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Steurs Patrick
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 2:54 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not O Hi,

Look for pmr 06838 : reuse of lob-space after REORG is not OK !

greetings,

Patrick Steurs.


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Schiradin,Roland
HG-Dir itb-db/dc
Sent: maandag 2 januari 2006 11:16
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Max,

seperate BP for all Lob's about 5000 Pages and because of DB2
V8 no dataspace.
It was a dataspace same size while running V7. I don't believe
it makes sense to use a large BP for those type of data.

Currently all of them are LOG YES but we will change some to
LOG NO this year. Only LOBs with updates will remain as LOG
Yes. Those with just insert/read/delete will be changed to LOG no.

So you may start with LOG YES and may change it later after the
application runs fine for some time. Ensure the size of your
LOGARCH are big enough.

Look at INFOAPAR II13767 for LOBs maintenance. The last one we
hit was fixed by PK08333.

We don't run any REORG or RUNSTATS for LOB tablespaces.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List
[mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management


HI Roland and thank you for your reply

Can you tell me what is your maintenance level or what PTF(s)
did you apply to your system for managing blobs ? How big is
your BP for xLOBs (and
dataspace) ?

Actually the only problem I can see is LOG NO for recovery due
to a wrong application update. I presume you use LOG NO which
(as Avram pointed out) give some additional problems.

Thank you & best regards

Max Scarpa

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opinions expressed in this message are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily reflect NBB viewpoints,
particularly when the content of this message, or part thereof,
is private by nature or does not fall within the professional
scope of its author."


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Infodemic B.V. Douwe van Sluis

Re: xLOBs and daily management
(in response to Patrick Steurs)
Max,

Make sure you have the latest Redbook version. There is only a small change
in the old one, with huge consequences for space management.

Below some snaps from my other replies concerning LOB's:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some other considerations:
Be aware that REORG of LOB Tablespaces works different. Because of this you
might want to consider using a small number for DSSIZE. Also check the PTF's
concerning LOB's, there are some still open. Consider using VIEW's with
UNION for the LOB Table(s) and for better maintenance separate your meta
data from the LOB data. We are using LOB's intensively, 2,5 Tbyte and over
20M objects. Our customers select over 16.000 Lob objects per day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Make sure you understand a REORG of a LOB Tablespace. One of the challenges
of LOB space management is reclaiming deleted LOB Space in the tablespace.
If you are inserting and deleting LOBs, then over time the LOB Tablespace
VSAM is as large as the largest number of inserted LOBs so far. The LOB
REORG does not do a Delete/Define of the VSAM, is just consolidates free
space and makes the lobs contiguous again. So, if you run out of extents or
want to reclaim extents LOB REORG can not do this. The text in the first
edition of the Redbook is wrong. LOG REORG does not delete additional
datasets (A002, etc.)!! In the second edition this has changed!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A HSM archive/restore will only make it possible to get rid of the extents,
but will not reclaim space. A image copy followed by a recovery will not
help either. This all has to do with the structure of a LOB Tablespace
(HLSMAP, LLSMAP and chunk admin).

The only thing that works for us is Unload/ VSAM Delete/ VSAM Define /LOAD
kind of processing.

Still interested though in other faster solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Vriendelijke groet,
Douwe van Sluis, Infodemic B.V.
IT-Specialist


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens Max
Scarpa
Verzonden: vrijdag 30 december 2005 12:59
Aan: [login to unmask email]
Onderwerp: [DB2-L] xLOBs and daily management

Esteemed listers

First of all best wishes for a new & happy 2006, may this year bring a
zilliard of dollars to all listers and tons of high-pressure and
high-temperature carbon, better know as diamond, to all DB2-L ladies.
Or whatever that can make you happy......

We have a project of implementing a new application with CLOBs and BLOBs
(and XML) and for this reason I'm reading redbook and some papers. The
redbook 'Large objects with DB2 for z/OS and OS/390' is good and provides a
good picture for table(spaces) and indexes management as BP,reorg etc.

What I'd like to know if there are other issue in daily management,
strange situation or problem occurred managing xLOBs. For example as
suggested I'm planning to use LOG NO for tables but of course this could
generate some problems in recovering a tablespace. Or as there's ROWID
involved if there are issues moving data from prod to test. And so on.

Any hint is appreciated. Thank you in advance & best regards


Max Scarpa

Certified ' Run away before they catch you !' DB2 sysprog
Certified 'Watch your step' warning strip

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