Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation

J.P. (Jaap) Slot

Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
Hello Max,

Having said the z may disappear, it seems a bit like "The King is dead.
Let's celebrate the new King". With the coming of age of other
platforms, virtualisation becomes a widespread phenomenon. This feature
is used for ages within z. The functionality of z becomes a NEW thingy
for other platforms and they will appear more and more like the former
mainframes. They will have the same troubles as have the current
mainframes. Costcalculation and internal chargeback becomes a nuisance
to them too.
Having all the knowledge of the 'typical' z/OS stuff you might become a
very good consultant to the new platforms in using their NEW
functionalities.. "The mainframe is dead, let's celebrate the new
mainframe!"

Regards,

Jaap Slot

PS. As I am Dutch, my English is not that well as I am not a native
speaker. My apologies.

When the process is lost, there are rules.
When rules are lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the beginning of chaos.

_____

Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens
Max Scarpa
Verzonden: woensdag 6 december 2006 10:55
Aan: [login to unmask email]
Onderwerp: Re: [DB2-L] Globalisation



You're old ! I remember a movie with John Wayne about him. But as I work
as geophysicist in a oil company I remember real Adair as well....

Anyway I heard many stories about outsourcing, one of them was a drop
table in test environment, 2 day for doing it.....when previously it was
done in few minutes. Problems in communications between client and
outsourcers. The most beaten people is people in the middle between tech
people at the outsourcer company and manager in the client, who are
costantly reproached by managers because the work is performed slowly,
and in most cases this people is lacking motivation due to outsourcing.

The skill on DB2 can be lowered by automation, but DB2 since V3 became
very very dependent on z/OS (using many features as SMS, HW sort,
compression,), 'allied' products like Webspeher MQ & CICS & RRS,
hardware and opening to other systems & language (Java,XML....) so I'm
wondering if the planned automation will be enough in future. And this
could be another reason for closing maniframes
as you will need too much skilled people and too costly.

Here mainframes are disappearing because the main companies using
mainframe are acquired by bigger companies so closing the mainframe of
smaller companies. Some companies gave their mainframe to some
outsourcer but usually in Italy, I don't know of Italian companies that
migrated to India or China their MF. That said, mainframe will disappear
in few years here.

I'm afraid I'll have to study english seriouslyto migrate to...India

Maybe new z9 BC (low cost MF) will resurrect MF, but I've many doubts
about it.

Best regards

Max Scarpa
'There are more days than sausages'



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html.
From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm



De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en
is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht
onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en
de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren.

The information contained in this message may be confidential
and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you
receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents
herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Phil Grainger

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to J.P. (Jaap) Slot)
Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have been disconnected
from DB2-L for a while

Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of the mainframe, take
a look at http://www.t3t.com/. Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe
Company". For those of you running a few hundred mips, it might make
VERY interesting reading!

Phil Grainger
CA
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
[login to unmask email]


________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
Sent: 06 December 2006 10:12
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation


Hello Max,

Having said the z may disappear, it seems a bit like "The King is dead.
Let's celebrate the new King". With the coming of age of other
platforms, virtualisation becomes a widespread phenomenon. This feature
is used for ages within z. The functionality of z becomes a NEW thingy
for other platforms and they will appear more and more like the former
mainframes. They will have the same troubles as have the current
mainframes. Costcalculation and internal chargeback becomes a nuisance
to them too.
Having all the knowledge of the 'typical' z/OS stuff you might become a
very good consultant to the new platforms in using their NEW
functionalities.. "The mainframe is dead, let's celebrate the new
mainframe!"

Regards,

Jaap Slot

PS. As I am Dutch, my English is not that well as I am not a native
speaker. My apologies.

When the process is lost, there are rules.
When rules are lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the beginning of chaos.

________________________________

Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens
Max Scarpa
Verzonden: woensdag 6 december 2006 10:55
Aan: [login to unmask email]
Onderwerp: Re: [DB2-L] Globalisation



You're old ! I remember a movie with John Wayne about him. But as I work
as geophysicist in a oil company I remember real Adair as well....

Anyway I heard many stories about outsourcing, one of them was a drop
table in test environment, 2 day for doing it.....when previously it was
done in few minutes. Problems in communications between client and
outsourcers. The most beaten people is people in the middle between tech
people at the outsourcer company and manager in the client, who are
costantly reproached by managers because the work is performed slowly,
and in most cases this people is lacking motivation due to outsourcing.

The skill on DB2 can be lowered by automation, but DB2 since V3 became
very very dependent on z/OS (using many features as SMS, HW sort,
compression,), 'allied' products like Webspeher MQ & CICS & RRS,
hardware and opening to other systems & language (Java,XML....) so I'm
wondering if the planned automation will be enough in future. And this
could be another reason for closing maniframes
as you will need too much skilled people and too costly.

Here mainframes are disappearing because the main companies using
mainframe are acquired by bigger companies so closing the mainframe of
smaller companies. Some companies gave their mainframe to some
outsourcer but usually in Italy, I don't know of Italian companies that
migrated to India or China their MF. That said, mainframe will disappear
in few years here.

I'm afraid I'll have to study english seriouslyto migrate to...India

Maybe new z9 BC (low cost MF) will resurrect MF, but I've many doubts
about it.

Best regards

Max Scarpa
'There are more days than sausages'



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html.
From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm


De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en
is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht
onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en
de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren.

The information contained in this message may be confidential
and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you
receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents
herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html.
From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
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[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Max Scarpa

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Hi

I heard so many times that mainframe will have a new role in IT. I do not
doubt about the studies I read. I only base my opinions on what I see now.
IBM too late opened mainframe to other worlds and the

costs are still high. Too high for many companies. In 5 years here
mainframe will be only in (very) big companies and only in few big cities.
I know medium to small company which could have a lot of

advantages using a low-cost mainframe but even here IBM is in late from hw
side as well as from sw side. It's hard to convince a company to get rid
of UNIX/ORACLE to move to DB2 and z/OS which is still

seen as a dinosaur. At least here IBM strategy isn't agressive and a lot of
IT companies are closing. Mine too. Hav to impruve my englis as uell....

All my opinions of course.


Max Scarpa
'There are more days than sausages'


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

J.P. (Jaap) Slot

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to Max Scarpa)
Hi Max,

I just think Unix Oracle will be the next mainframe, as will other
platforms e.g. Linux Oracle.

Regards,

Jaap

_____

Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens
Max Scarpa
Verzonden: woensdag 6 december 2006 11:47
Aan: [login to unmask email]
Onderwerp: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation



Hi

I heard so many times that mainframe will have a new role in IT. I do
not doubt about the studies I read. I only base my opinions on what I
see now. IBM too late opened mainframe to other worlds and the

costs are still high. Too high for many companies. In 5 years here
mainframe will be only in (very) big companies and only in few big
cities. I know medium to small company which could have a lot of

advantages using a low-cost mainframe but even here IBM is in late from
hw side as well as from sw side. It's hard to convince a company to get
rid of UNIX/ORACLE to move to DB2 and z/OS which is still

seen as a dinosaur. At least here IBM strategy isn't agressive and a lot
of IT companies are closing. Mine too. Hav to impruve my englis as
uell....

All my opinions of course.


Max Scarpa
'There are more days than sausages'

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html.
From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm



De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en
is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht
onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en
de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren.

The information contained in this message may be confidential
and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you
receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents
herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Arlen Stovall

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to J.P. (Jaap) Slot)
Check out this announcement concerning PSI.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0OQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610ThanksArlen Stovall


Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:19:16 +0000From: [login to unmask email]: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] GlobalisationTo: [login to unmask email]

Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have been disconnected from DB2-L for a while

Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of the mainframe, take a look at http://www.t3t.com/. Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe Company". For those of you running a few hundred mips, it might make VERY interesting reading!

Phil Grainger
CA
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
[login to unmask email]



From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of [login to unmask email]: 06 December 2006 10:12To: [login to unmask email]: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation

Hello Max,

Having said the z may disappear, it seems a bit like "The King is dead. Let's celebrate the new King". With the coming of age of other platforms, virtualisation becomes a widespread phenomenon. This feature is used for ages within z. The functionality of z becomes a NEW thingy for other platforms and they will appear more and more like the former mainframes. They will have the same troubles as have the current mainframes. Costcalculation and internal chargeback becomes a nuisance to them too.
Having all the knowledge of the 'typical' z/OS stuff you might become a very good consultant to the new platforms in using their NEW functionalities.. "The mainframe is dead, let's celebrate the new mainframe!"

Regards,

Jaap Slot


PS. As I am Dutch, my English is not that well as I am not a native speaker. My apologies.
When the process is lost, there are rules.When rules are lost, there is ritual.Ritual is the beginning of chaos.


Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens Max ScarpaVerzonden: woensdag 6 december 2006 10:55Aan: [login to unmask email]: Re: [DB2-L] Globalisation


You're old ! I remember a movie with John Wayne about him. But as I work as geophysicist in a oil company I remember real Adair as well....Anyway I heard many stories about outsourcing, one of them was a drop table in test environment, 2 day for doing it.....when previously it was done in few minutes. Problems in communications between client and outsourcers. The most beaten people is people in the middle between tech people at the outsourcer company and manager in the client, who are costantly reproached by managers because the work is performed slowly, and in most cases this people is lacking motivation due to outsourcing. The skill on DB2 can be lowered by automation, but DB2 since V3 became very very dependent on z/OS (using many features as SMS, HW sort, compression,), 'allied' products like Webspeher MQ & CICS & RRS, hardware and opening to other systems & language (Java,XML....) so I'm wondering if the planned automation will be enough in future. And this could be another reason for closing maniframesas you will need too much skilled people and too costly. Here mainframes are disappearing because the main companies using mainframe are acquired by bigger companies so closing the mainframe of smaller companies. Some companies gave their mainframe to some outsourcer but usually in Italy, I don't know of Italian companies that migrated to India or China their MF. That said, mainframe will disappear in few years here. I'm afraid I'll have to study english seriouslyto migrate to...IndiaMaybe new z9 BC (low cost MF) will resurrect MF, but I've many doubts about it. Best regardsMax Scarpa'There are more days than sausages'--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en
is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht
onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en
de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren.

The information contained in this message may be confidential
and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you
receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents
herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
_________________________________________________________________
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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

duam lee

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to Arlen Stovall)
Hi Listers,

This is eminent from these replies that by some way you the people at west
are following discrimination and following racism in db2 world. I could see
experts has described and requested to be prefessional and requested to stop
this communication. Those same experts have diplomatically changed the
subject and twisted to Inida to Korea and China and started criticising
again and again in another form. Even after composing tactically, those
experts did not forget to utter or express the spell mistake. Damn thing.

I am asking is this good to discriminate and blame one community in India or
Korea or China for one indiviudal's spell mistake. If this the attitude
then you cant succeed as a prefessional group. This is realy ridiculous that
the most professional and higly respected DB2 experts also fall into this
line with a plead that offshore.

I am ready for any fitting treply to this chain in any form.

Duam


>From: arlen stovall <[login to unmask email]>
>Reply-To: DB2 Database Discussion list at IDUG <[login to unmask email]>
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
>Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:06:01 -0500
>
>Check out this announcement concerning PSI.
>
>http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0OQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610ThanksArlen
>Stovall
>
>
>Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:19:16 +0000From: [login to unmask email]: Re:
>[DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] GlobalisationTo:
>[login to unmask email]
>
>Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have been disconnected from
>DB2-L for a while
>
>Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of the mainframe, take a
>look at http://www.t3t.com/. Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe
>Company". For those of you running a few hundred mips, it might make VERY
>interesting reading!
>
>Phil Grainger
>CA
>Product Manager, DB2
>Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
>Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
>Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
>[login to unmask email]
>
>
>
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
>Of [login to unmask email]: 06 December 2006 10:12To:
>[login to unmask email]: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was
>[DB2-L] Globalisation
>
>Hello Max,
>
>Having said the z may disappear, it seems a bit like "The King is dead.
>Let's celebrate the new King". With the coming of age of other platforms,
>virtualisation becomes a widespread phenomenon. This feature is used for
>ages within z. The functionality of z becomes a NEW thingy for other
>platforms and they will appear more and more like the former mainframes.
>They will have the same troubles as have the current mainframes.
>Costcalculation and internal chargeback becomes a nuisance to them too.
>Having all the knowledge of the 'typical' z/OS stuff you might become a
>very good consultant to the new platforms in using their NEW
>functionalities.. "The mainframe is dead, let's celebrate the new
>mainframe!"
>
>Regards,
>
>Jaap Slot
>
>
>PS. As I am Dutch, my English is not that well as I am not a native
>speaker. My apologies.
>When the process is lost, there are rules.When rules are lost, there is
>ritual.Ritual is the beginning of chaos.
>
>
>Van: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] Namens Max
>ScarpaVerzonden: woensdag 6 december 2006 10:55Aan:
>[login to unmask email]: Re: [DB2-L] Globalisation
>
>
>You're old ! I remember a movie with John Wayne about him. But as I work as
>geophysicist in a oil company I remember real Adair as well....Anyway I
>heard many stories about outsourcing, one of them was a drop table in test
>environment, 2 day for doing it.....when previously it was done in few
>minutes. Problems in communications between client and outsourcers. The
>most beaten people is people in the middle between tech people at the
>outsourcer company and manager in the client, who are costantly reproached
>by managers because the work is performed slowly, and in most cases this
>people is lacking motivation due to outsourcing. The skill on DB2 can be
>lowered by automation, but DB2 since V3 became very very dependent on z/OS
>(using many features as SMS, HW sort, compression,), 'allied' products like
>Webspeher MQ & CICS & RRS, hardware and opening to other systems & language
>(Java,XML....) so I'm wondering if the planned automation will be enough in
>future. And this could be another reason for closing maniframesas you will
>need too much skilled people and too costly. Here mainframes are
>disappearing because the main companies using mainframe are acquired by
>bigger companies so closing the mainframe of smaller companies. Some
>companies gave their mainframe to some outsourcer but usually in Italy, I
>don't know of Italian companies that migrated to India or China their MF.
>That said, mainframe will disappear in few years here. I'm afraid I'll have
>to study english seriouslyto migrate to...IndiaMaybe new z9 BC (low cost
>MF) will resurrect MF, but I've many doubts about it. Best regardsMax
>Scarpa'There are more days than
>sausages'---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
>page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select
>"Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
>http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
>[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
>http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>
>De informatie opgenomen in dit bericht kan vertrouwelijk zijn en
>is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Indien u dit bericht
>onterecht ontvangt, wordt u verzocht de inhoud niet te gebruiken en
>de afzender direct te informeren door het bericht te retourneren.
>
>The information contained in this message may be confidential
>and is intended to be exclusively for the addressee. Should you
>receive this message unintentionally, please do not use the contents
>herein and notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
>page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select
>"Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
>http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
>[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
>http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
>page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select
>"Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
>http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
>[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
>http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
>_________________________________________________________________
>Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows
>Live Toolbar Today!
>http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
>page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select
>"Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
>http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
>[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at
>http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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Jim Harrison

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to duam lee)
And guess what? They're being sued by IBM!!

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0OQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610

EE Times: Latest News
IBM sues maker of Intel-based mainframe clones


Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
(12/05/2006 9:00 AM EST)


In its second major patent enforcement action in as many months, IBM is quietly suing an Intel-backed maker of computers that uses a version of IBM's high-end mainframe operating system reconfigured to run atop Intel's industry standard processors, InformationWeek has learned.
In a lawsuit, IBM alleges that the mainframe "emulator systems" offered by Platform Solutions Inc. violate IBM patents on its z/OS operating system as well as patents relating to its previous mainframe operating system, known as OS/390.



PS - Welcome back Phil.



----- Original Message ----
From: "Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 5:19:16 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation


Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have been disconnected from DB2-L for a while

Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of the mainframe, take a look at http://www.t3t.com/. Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe Company". For those of you running a few hundred mips, it might make VERY interesting reading!

Phil Grainger
CA
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
[login to unmask email]

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Jim Harrison

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to Jim Harrison)
Ooops!! Same product, wrong vendor. I had no idea more than one company was making these things. Here's who's actually getting sued http://www.platform-solutions.com/ Howver, from what I gather of IBM's current mood, T3 may not be far behind.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jim <[login to unmask email]>
To: DB2 Database Discussion list at IDUG <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 1:38:37 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation


And guess what? They're being sued by IBM!!

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0OQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610

EE Times: Latest News
IBM sues maker of Intel-based mainframe clones


Paul McDougall
InformationWeek
(12/05/2006 9:00 AM EST)


In its second major patent enforcement action in as many months, IBM is quietly suing an Intel-backed maker of computers that uses a version of IBM's high-end mainframe operating system reconfigured to run atop Intel's industry standard processors, InformationWeek has learned.
In a lawsuit, IBM alleges that the mainframe "emulator systems" offered by Platform Solutions Inc. violate IBM patents on its z/OS operating system as well as patents relating to its previous mainframe operating system, known as OS/390.



PS - Welcome back Phil.



----- Original Message ----
From: "Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 5:19:16 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation


Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have been disconnected from DB2-L for a while

Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of the mainframe, take a look at http://www.t3t.com/. Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe Company". For those of you running a few hundred mips, it might make VERY interesting reading!

Phil Grainger
CA
Product Manager, DB2
Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
[login to unmask email]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Andrew Monaghan

Re: Dead of the mainframe? was [DB2-L] Globalisation
(in response to Jim Harrison)
I know its closed but this is attempted humor not necessarily philosphy.

The death of the mainframe, I think we have ourselves to blame here.
We are the ones that kept our technical ranks pure by purging the inept to
the pool of management.
Are we the ones that allowed the propagation of coloured brouchers and
efficient movement of sales staff
and their access to those that could be bought or conned.
But the reality is that it takes so long to get a working midrange
application to replace the "legacy" systems
that the mainframe will not die its just set up to send subliminal
messages to those perveyors of the colour brochers
telling them they are winning the battle that they will never win !!!

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

Tony Saul

Re: Dead of the mainframe?
(in response to Andrew Monaghan)
Isn't it the makers of the Hercules software that are
being sued?

The T3T site is still shown on the IBM website
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct09002c/isv/zseries/flexes.html


I know a couple of small development companies that
use the flex-es type of machine; one is an IBM Laptop
running redhat-linux that starts z/OS, the other runs
SCO Unix and is a little bigger.

I think 2 main points -
1. The T3T you will pay for a legal copy of z/OS and
have to pay the associated maintenance fees according
to the size of the machine, while some of the people
running "other emulators" I knew were not so legal
copies.

2. The reason stated by IBM in the article is that the
"other emulator" didn't emulate the operating system
accurately, so it makes z/OS look bad, which I think
is a valid call, but it would be nice if there was a
"cheap" z/OS that independent developers could afford
to develop / practice their z/OS skills.

There is also the introduction of zAAP and zIIP
processors that are supposed to bring the cost of
ownership of a mainframe down and there will probably
more of these coming up (when they generate new
acronyms).

And Max and Jaap; your English is a lot better than my
Italian or Dutch!


--- Jim <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> And guess what? They're being sued by IBM!!
>
>
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0OQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610
>
> EE Times: Latest News
> IBM sues maker of Intel-based mainframe clones
>
>
> Paul McDougall
> InformationWeek
> (12/05/2006 9:00 AM EST)
>
>
> In its second major patent enforcement action in as
> many months, IBM is quietly suing an Intel-backed
> maker of computers that uses a version of IBM's
> high-end mainframe operating system reconfigured to
> run atop Intel's industry standard processors,
> InformationWeek has learned.
> In a lawsuit, IBM alleges that the mainframe
> "emulator systems" offered by Platform Solutions
> Inc. violate IBM patents on its z/OS operating
> system as well as patents relating to its previous
> mainframe operating system, known as OS/390.
>
>
>
> PS - Welcome back Phil.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]>
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 5:19:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Dead of the mainframe? was
> [DB2-L] Globalisation
>
>
> Sorry if this is old news to this group, but I have
> been disconnected from DB2-L for a while
>
> Anyway, in celebration of the "death and rebirth" of
> the mainframe, take a look at http://www.t3t.com/.
> Their tagline is "The Other Mainframe Company". For
> those of you running a few hundred mips, it might
> make VERY interesting reading!
>
> Phil Grainger
> CA
> Product Manager, DB2
> Tel: +44 (0)161 928 9334
> Fax: +44 (0)161 941 3775
> Mobile: +44 (0)7970 125752
> [login to unmask email]
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go
> to the archives and home page at
> http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From
> that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG
> DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG
> List Admins can be reached at
> [login to unmask email] Find out the latest
> on IDUG conferences at
http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm


Regards,
Tony

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Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm