DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations

Jim Irwin

DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain
what constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM? We
have a subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute
period but the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion range if
(and it's a big if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination
would be appreciated.
Jim Irwin
Technical Support Supervisor

The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good
ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.


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Philip Sevetson

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Jim Irwin)
1) One /Billion/?
2) Did you ever get a reply from anyone on this?
3) Just how many MIPs does your mainframe /have/?

--Phil, appalled (who is considering purchase of Omegamon/DB2)


On 1/18/07, Irwin, Jim <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
>
> I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain what
> constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM? We have a
> subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute period but
> the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion range if (and it's a big
> if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination would be
> appreciated.
> Jim Irwin
> Technical Support Supervisor
>
> *The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good
> ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.*
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home
> page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page
> select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
> http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
> [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
> at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm




--
--Phil Sevetson
IBM Certified Solutions Expert -- DB2 V7.1 Database Administration for
OS/390
IBM Certified Database Administrator -- DB2 Universal Database V8.1 for zOS
The Reserve
New York, NY, USA
ANY OPINIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS EMAIL
ARE MY OWN, NOT MY EMPLOYER'S OR IBM'S.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Jim Irwin

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Philip Sevetson)
1) Yes......billion
Transactions Conversations
Statements
SENT 372768768 2050818048
0
RECEIVED 0 0
0

2) No........the silence has been deafening.

3) Around 4721 mips

As for Omegamon......I like the product although I think they're going
through some changes after being assimilated by Big Blue.



________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Philip Sevetson
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:26 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations


1) One /Billion/?
2) Did you ever get a reply from anyone on this?
3) Just how many MIPs does your mainframe /have/?

--Phil, appalled (who is considering purchase of Omegamon/DB2)


On 1/18/07, Irwin, Jim <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone
explain what constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM?
We have a subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15
minute period but the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion
range if (and it's a big if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any
illumination would be appreciated.
Jim Irwin
Technical Support Supervisor

The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a
good ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
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From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
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Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] . Find out the
latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm




--
--Phil Sevetson
IBM Certified Solutions Expert -- DB2 V7.1 Database Administration for
OS/390
IBM Certified Database Administrator -- DB2 Universal Database V8.1 for
zOS
The Reserve
New York, NY, USA
ANY OPINIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS EMAIL
ARE MY OWN, NOT MY EMPLOYER'S OR IBM'S.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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Walter Trovijo Jr (UOL)

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Jim Irwin)
Hi Jim,

A conversation is an APPC term to define something like a transaction. The limits are defined in
VTAM LU definitions and monitored by some DB2 messages. I think the important thing to monitor
here is the # of times you've exceeded number of conversations available, as it will cause overhead
in DDF address space. I did a search in the Msgs and Codes manual (I'm still v7, so I don't if it's still valid) and found a reason code that I would look for (see below). Also, loooong time I don't put my hands in VTAM but I'm sure that VTAM has commands to display important statistical information about session/conversation thresholds. IIRC command is D NET,ID=luname,E

HTH,
Walter Trovijo Jr.

00D3103B

Explanation: An attempt to allocate an LU6.2 conversation failed because the conversation limits for the desired partner LU and
VTAM MODE have been reached.

This abend reason code is issued by the following CSECT: DSNLVALM

System Action: This reason code is generated internally when an attempt is made to allocate an LU6.2 conversation and
conversation limits have been reached for the desired partner LU and VTAM MODE. In this situation, the requesting DB2 system will
attempt to reuse one of the existing LU6.2 conversations that have already been allocated to the agent in question.

The allocate process will be retried using the existing conversation.

System Programmer Response: If you increase the LU6.2 conversation limits for the indicated partner LU and VTAM MODE, it will
not be necessary for DB2 to reclaim conversations in order to allocate additional LU6.2 conversations. The reclaiming process will
reduce system throughput, since the reclaimed conversation will have to service multiple SQL statements.



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Tom Moulder

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Walter Trovijo Jr (UOL))
Jim



Is this a question based on some problem that you are having or just
curiosity?



Tom Moulder

TREX Associates, Inc.

9728 Delmonico Dr.

Keller, Tx. 76248-9559

+1 817 741-5549 Office

+1 817 741-5548 Fax

+1 682 558-6527 Mobile

[login to unmask email]

www.t-rex-associates.com



_____

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf
Of Irwin, Jim
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:06 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations



I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain what
constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM? We have a
subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute period but
the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion range if (and it's a big
if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination would be appreciated.


Jim Irwin

Technical Support Supervisor



The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good ending;
and to have the two as close together as possible.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and
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http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Isaac Yassin

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Tom Moulder)
Hi,

Take a look at Installation guide "the APPL statement" (3.2.3.1 if I'm not mistaken ;-) )
Your friendly comms. group can help with better suited values.


Isaac Yassin

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Irwin, Jim
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:31 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations


1) Yes......billion
Transactions Conversations Statements
SENT 372768768 2050818048 0
RECEIVED 0 0 0

2) No........the silence has been deafening.

3) Around 4721 mips

As for Omegamon......I like the product although I think they're going through some changes after being assimilated by Big Blue.



_____

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Philip Sevetson
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:26 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations


1) One /Billion/?
2) Did you ever get a reply from anyone on this?
3) Just how many MIPs does your mainframe /have/?

--Phil, appalled (who is considering purchase of Omegamon/DB2)


On 1/18/07, Irwin, Jim <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain what constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and
VTAM? We have a subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute period but the number of conversations is in the
1+ billion range if (and it's a big if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination would be appreciated.
Jim Irwin
Technical Support Supervisor

The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go
to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The
IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org < http://www.idugdb2-l.org/ > . The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] . Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm




--
--Phil Sevetson
IBM Certified Solutions Expert -- DB2 V7.1 Database Administration for OS/390
IBM Certified Database Administrator -- DB2 Universal Database V8.1 for zOS
The Reserve
New York, NY, USA
ANY OPINIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS EMAIL
ARE MY OWN, NOT MY EMPLOYER'S OR IBM'S. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to
the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that
page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go
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Jim Harrison

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Isaac Yassin)
I just looked around to see what our numbers were in a fairly heavy DDF system and I can't seem to find a display in Omegamon that matches yours. The closest I found was the DDF Stats selection, DRDA REMOTE LOC where I found this:

*-------------------------·--------------------------·-------------------------*
| Distributed Activity | Sent | Received |
·-------------------------+--------------------------+-------------------------·
| Transactions | 0 | 1147 |
| SQL Statements | 0 | 5979175 |
| Rows | 37086K | 0 |
| Messages | 6970445 | 6978558 |
| Bytes | 458976K | 1579988K |
| Commits (Single-phase) | 0 | 3555972 |
| Aborts (Single-phase) | 0 | 34049 |
| Conversations | 0 | 1147 |
*-------------------------·--------------------------·-------------------------*

We have about 120 active threads split between CICS and DISTSERV


----- Original Message -----
From: Irwin, Jim
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations


1) Yes......billion
Transactions Conversations Statements
SENT 372768768 2050818048 0
RECEIVED 0 0 0

2) No........the silence has been deafening.

3) Around 4721 mips

As for Omegamon......I like the product although I think they're going through some changes after being assimilated by Big Blue.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Philip Sevetson
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:26 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations


1) One /Billion/?
2) Did you ever get a reply from anyone on this?
3) Just how many MIPs does your mainframe /have/?

--Phil, appalled (who is considering purchase of Omegamon/DB2)


On 1/18/07, Irwin, Jim <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain what constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM? We have a subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute period but the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion range if (and it's a big if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination would be appreciated.
Jim Irwin
Technical Support Supervisor

The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] . Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm



--
--Phil Sevetson
IBM Certified Solutions Expert -- DB2 V7.1 Database Administration for OS/390
IBM Certified Database Administrator -- DB2 Universal Database V8.1 for zOS
The Reserve
New York, NY, USA
ANY OPINIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS EXPRESSED IN THIS EMAIL
ARE MY OWN, NOT MY EMPLOYER'S OR IBM'S. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm

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Jim Irwin

Re: DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations
(in response to Jim Harrison)
Tom, I guess I'm trying to figure out if I have a problem. The
application involved has always had performance issues. I just happened
to notice there are a large number of conversations queued but how much
time does the queuing add? Milliseconds?......Microseconds?..Hours?...I
don't know. I'm just trying to understand the underlying mechanics so I
can make some intelligent guesses.

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Tom Moulder
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:42 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations



Jim



Is this a question based on some problem that you are having or just
curiosity?



Tom Moulder

TREX Associates, Inc.

9728 Delmonico Dr.

Keller, Tx. 76248-9559

+1 817 741-5549 Office

+1 817 741-5548 Fax

+1 682 558-6527 Mobile

[login to unmask email]

www.t-rex-associates.com



________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On
Behalf Of Irwin, Jim
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 11:06 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] DB2 for z/OS V8 DDF Conversations



I don't know exactly what I want to ask here but can someone explain
what constitutes a "conversation" as it relates to DDF and VTAM? We
have a subsystem that does maybe 6000 distributed threads in a 15 minute
period but the number of conversations is in the 1+ billion range if
(and it's a big if) Omegamon is reporting correctly. Any illumination
would be appreciated.

Jim Irwin

Technical Support Supervisor



The secret of a good meeting is to have a good beginning and a good
ending; and to have the two as close together as possible.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the
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From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at
[login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences
at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the IDUG DB2-L list. To unsubscribe, go to the archives and home page at http://www.idugdb2-l.org/archives/db2-l.html. From that page select "Join or Leave the list". The IDUG DB2-L FAQ is at http://www.idugdb2-l.org. The IDUG List Admins can be reached at [login to unmask email] Find out the latest on IDUG conferences at http://conferences.idug.org/index.cfm