BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited

Tom Glaser

BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Raymond Bell

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Tom Glaser)
Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Phil Grainger

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Raymond Bell)
Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)

The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?

Well, consider

- Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what else would they show you?)
- Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have "creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
- YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment (and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and the benchmark-ees

We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)

I guess the question(s) you are really asking are

1. Who's faster
2. How much by (on average)

But it's not just about speed

Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well

Hope this is helpful

Phil Grainger
CA

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms




The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Edward Long

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Phil Grainger)
To add to Phil's comments may I add, factor in which vendors' tools will be most reliable, available and best maintained. If a given load utility, say, requires 5% less CPU for your use case than everyone else's, but the vendor can't, won't doesn't support the interesting table structures, say BLOBS or XML, you rely on then the 5% improvement is really a 30% regression because you will have to write your own utility.

These benchmarks, to me, have always had the aroma of the TPC benchmarks, i.e., well cooked books served with a heaping side of bologna.

Phil is right, setup your own competition. Its not only more useful, but its also fun. Downside, it requires work.

"Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)

The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?

Well, consider

- Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what else would they show you?)
- Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have "creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
- YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment (and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and the benchmark-ees

We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)

I guess the question(s) you are really asking are

1. Who's faster
2. How much by (on average)

But it's not just about speed

Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well

Hope this is helpful

Phil Grainger
CA



---------------------------------
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited


Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms




The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more.
If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services


Edward Long

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Edward Long

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Edward Long)
To add to Phil's comments may I add, factor in which vendors' tools will be most reliable, available and best maintained. If a given load utility, say, requires 5% less CPU for your use case than everyone else's, but the vendor can't, won't doesn't support the interesting table structures, say BLOBS or XML, you rely on then the 5% improvement is really a 30% regression because you will have to write your own utility.

These benchmarks, to me, have always had the aroma of the TPC benchmarks, i.e., well cooked books served with a heaping side of bologna.

Phil is right, setup your own competition. Its not only more useful, but its also fun. Downside, it requires work.

"Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)

The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?

Well, consider

- Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what else would they show you?)
- Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have "creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
- YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment (and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and the benchmark-ees

We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)

I guess the question(s) you are really asking are

1. Who's faster
2. How much by (on average)

But it's not just about speed

Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well

Hope this is helpful

Phil Grainger
CA



---------------------------------
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited


Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms




The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more.
If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services


Edward Long

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Edward Long

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
To add to Phil's comments may I add, factor in which vendors' tools will be most reliable, available and best maintained. If a given load utility, say, requires 5% less CPU for your use case than everyone else's, but the vendor can't, won't doesn't support the interesting table structures, say BLOBS or XML, you rely on then the 5% improvement is really a 30% regression because you will have to write your own utility.

These benchmarks, to me, have always had the aroma of the TPC benchmarks, i.e., well cooked books served with a heaping side of bologna.

Phil is right, setup your own competition. Its not only more useful, but its also fun. Downside, it requires work.

"Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)

The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?

Well, consider

- Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what else would they show you?)
- Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have "creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
- YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment (and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and the benchmark-ees

We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)

I guess the question(s) you are really asking are

1. Who's faster
2. How much by (on average)

But it's not just about speed

Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well

Hope this is helpful

Phil Grainger
CA



---------------------------------
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited


Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms




The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more.
If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services


Edward Long

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Joel Goldstein

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Edward Long)
Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisitedPhil hits it right on the head here.

Results will vary at every installation, and there are too many variables for anyone else's benchmark numbers to bear relevance to your environment.

Since these queries often originate from some bean counter trying to $1.98...., there is much more that should be considered than just money.
It should be more about features, ease of use, and making the DBA staff more efficient.

If somebody is thinking about conversion, that "somebody" should also factor in the people and machine time cost of conversion.
For large installations, this can easily be a 7 figure cost...

Regards,
Joel



Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works......
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too!
www.responsivesystems.com
tel. (732) 972-1261
fax.(732) 972-9416
----- Original Message -----
From: Grainger, Phil
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited


Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)

The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?

Well, consider

- Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what else would they show you?)
- Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have "creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
- YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment (and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and the benchmark-ees

We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)

I guess the question(s) you are really asking are

1. Who's faster
2. How much by (on average)

But it's not just about speed

Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well

Hope this is helpful

Phil Grainger
CA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited


Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.

Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.

Cheers,


Raymond

________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited



Hi,

It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.

Thanks in advance,

Tom Glaser
DB2 Systems Support
AT&T
(314)340-0980
[login to unmask email]

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms




The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more.
If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Steen Rasmussen

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Fred Edgar)
I like to throw in my few Cents - whether these are US or European
Cents.



Since more and more DB2 sites have been are being outsourced - I have
notices more and more interest in looking into the CPU consumption.
Elapsed time can be important, and so can the features being available
to accomplish whatever you need to accomplish - but if you are being
charged by the CPU consumption - some other figures might become less
interesting.



My point is - like Grainger, Raymond and others have pointed out - you
will need to look at your specific scenarios, requirements, how you pay
and needed features.



Have fun - doing benchmarks is a lot of fun :-)



Steen Rasmussen
CA

Principal Technical Specialist DB2 tools

IBM Certified Database Associate -- DB2 9 Fundamentals

IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 9 DBA for z/OS

Tel : +1-630-505-6673 (US direct)
Tel : +1-815-274-9589 (US mobile)

Tel : +45-22 15 44 98 (Europe mobile)
[login to unmask email]
< http://www.ca.com >

________________________________


The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L
list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org
< http://www.idug.org/lsidug > under the Listserv tab. While at the site,
you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and
Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information
< http://www.idug.org/lsconf > , and much more.
If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at
no cost, click on Member Services < http://www.idug.org/lsms >

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Fred Edgar

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Edward Long)
I have to agree with Phil. I remember doing a trial on a reorg utility
several years ago. I won't say which company's product it was, but their
reorg was taking several times longer than the IBM reorg. Their
explanation was that their reorg would be faster than IBM's if the data
wasn't so poorly clustered. I don't know about you all, but that's one
of the main reasons we run reorgs--to recluster.

Fred

--- "Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)
>
> The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?
>



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Nick Dordea

Re: BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
(in response to Steen Rasmussen)
Any product should provide a reasonable number of parameters necessary to
self-define product's performability ( limits, exceptions, behaviour,
failing rate, statistics : response time, memory usage, CPU, etc. )

These should be exactly the performance built-in VALUES associated with the
features and/or options that are used by the marketing personnel to sell the
NEW/ENHANCED/etc product.

The performance parameters must be made freely available and not defended
and/or controlled by the legal advisers.
Disclosing the benckmarks' conclusions will force the companies to do a bona
fide
benckmarking,statistical analysis, disclose the methodology, HW, etc. and
above all to stay behind those conclusions.

Staying behind those conclusions is the tricky part so it was decided to be
dropped and "internally" checked/controlled to not take place.......
What goes around ..... comes around ....

Sadly only a few products provide such indicators.

For the products that do not provide their TECHNICAL characteristics, the
customer has troubles with the process of selecting/comparing similar
products. Also the customer does not have any way of checking marketing's
claims and their associated "it depends"-s without using the "objective"
input[s] provided, tailored from/by the same marketing who broadcasts
product's "goodness".

The customer expects a bona fide description of product's goodness, but
[s]he receives the opposite.

How many of us are going to buy a car only because the car-dealer tells us
that
the car is "a car"?


nd




On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:16:01 -0800, Ed Long <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
>To add to Phil's comments may I add, factor in which vendors' tools will be
most reliable, available and best maintained. If a given load utility, say,
requires 5% less CPU for your use case than everyone else's, but the vendor
can't, won't doesn't support the interesting table structures, say BLOBS or
XML, you rely on then the 5% improvement is really a 30% regression because
you will have to write your own utility.
>
> These benchmarks, to me, have always had the aroma of the TPC benchmarks,
i.e., well cooked books served with a heaping side of bologna.
>
> Phil is right, setup your own competition. Its not only more useful, but
its also fun. Downside, it requires work.
>
>"Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> Ok Ray, seeing as you asked tso nicely :)
>
> The only benchmark that makes any sense is the one you do yourself - why?
>
> Well, consider
>
> - Each vendor will have benchmarks that make them look the best (what
else would they show you?)
> - Customers MAY have independent benchmarks, but they may also have
"creative" benchmarks that show a particluar result
> - YOUR benchmarks, WILL be independent, WILL utilise your own environment
(and just imagine how many differences there can be between your site and
the benchmark-ees
>
> We gave up publishing benchmarks mainly for those reasons (and for the
fact that our legal folks would prefer us to COMPLETELY document the
benchmark environment making comparisons pointless)
>
> I guess the question(s) you are really asking are
>
> 1. Who's faster
> 2. How much by (on average)
>
> But it's not just about speed
>
> Who is the easiest to use and what additional features does one offer
over the other (better parallelism, better error checking - those sorts of
things) ought to play a significant part in your decision process as well
>
> Hope this is helpful
>
> Phil Grainger
> CA
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Bell, Raymond
>Sent: Fri 14/12/2007 19:28
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: Re: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
>
>
> Hell, I'd love to see those figures too! We've got our own numbers
from our own testing, and I know the numbers from a few customers make for
some good reading, but the more the merrier. I could send you some figures
where the names have been changed to protect the innocent but I guess you're
not looking for info from BMC - or IBM, for that matter.
>
>Anyone gonna chip in? Go on; you know you want to.
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Raymond
>
>________________________________
>
>From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List on behalf of Tom Glaser
>Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:17 PM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: [DB2-L] BMC vs IBM Utility Benchmarks....revisited
>
>
>
>Hi,
>
>It's been many years since I've visited the topic of benchmarking the BMC DB2
>Utilities with the IBM DB2 Utilities. Does anyone have any recent benchmarks
>between these two companies they would be willing to share? Looking for DB2
>V8 or V9. We can take this off line you like.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Tom Glaser
>DB2 Systems Support
>AT&T
>(314)340-0980
>[login to unmask email]
>
>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L
list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at
http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you
can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code
Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you
have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost,
click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms
>
>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L
list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at
http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you
can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code
Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you
have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost,
click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms
>
>
>
>
>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list
archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at www.idug.org under the
Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online
Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference
information, and much more.
>If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no
cost, click on Member Services
>
>
>Edward Long
>
>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L
list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at
http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you
can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code
Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you
have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost,
click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. DB2-L list archives, the FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information, and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms