IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)

JOANN GLAZEWSKI

IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
Hello,
 
In January 2006 we converted from using BMC Catalog Manager to IBM's DB2 Admin Tool for the cost savings. The best analogy I can use to describe the changeover is an automotive one. We had been driving a Lexus and now we are driving a 'Vette. Unfortunately it's a Chevette, not a Corvette. The best thing I can say about the IBM Tool is that it's adequate, but I would not recommend it to anyone unless their other option was no tools at all. My main complaint is not the number of problems with the IBM Tool, it¢s the length of time it takes to get even the smallest problems fixed.
 
I would like to find out how many sites are using the IBM DB2 Admin Tool. My reason for asking is I don't feel it's a very large group of companies, so IBM receives a fairly small amount of feedback on problems and this contributes to the time it takes to get things fixed. I also stand guilty of not reporting every problem I encounter due to the time it takes to document what went wrong and pondering how long it will take to be corrected. I often wonder why a problem I've seen for two years hasn't been reported by another company and that's what leads me to the question, how many companies out there are using the product.
 
Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
John Glaszer

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA *
______________________________________________________________________



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Edward Long

Re: IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
(in response to JOANN GLAZEWSKI)
To an MBA, the IBM tools have a strong value proposition, they tend to be cheap. Since a manager or an MBA doesn't know or care what a drop recovery script is, they assume functional equivalence. That has not been my experience and I once drove a Chevette!

To some degree, the lack of response to your question helps answer your question.

ADB has come a long way since the V3/V4 era when, in my experience, virtually nothing worked, especially when dealing with complex views, LOBS, or SQL stored procs.

Whether its now on a par with BMC, CA, or COMPUWARE, after 10 years of trying, I suspect, depends upon your requirements. The less you need, the better it looks.

Regarding IBM support, frankly, I gave up too. If ADB does what I want, and I can prove by other means that its not screwing up, then great. If not, then I go back to writing scripts, programs or my own tricks.

Oracle and SQL/SERVER come with fully integrated, easy to use, easy to install, reliable tools that don't require multiple installs of confusing product streams. Why can't DB2 on z/OS?

Edward Long


--- On Fri, 12/19/08, JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:31 PM
> Hello,
>
> In January 2006 we converted from using BMC Catalog Manager
> to IBM's DB2 Admin Tool for the cost savings. The best
> analogy I can use to describe the changeover is an
> automotive one. We had been driving a Lexus and now we are
> driving a 'Vette. Unfortunately it's a Chevette, not
> a Corvette. The best thing I can say about the IBM Tool is
> that it's adequate, but I would not recommend it to
> anyone unless their other option was no tools at all. My
> main complaint is not the number of problems with the IBM
> Tool, it’s the length of time it takes to get even the
> smallest problems fixed.
>
> I would like to find out how many sites are using the IBM
> DB2 Admin Tool. My reason for asking is I don't feel
> it's a very large group of companies, so IBM receives a
> fairly small amount of feedback on problems and this
> contributes to the time it takes to get things fixed. I also
> stand guilty of not reporting every problem I encounter due
> to the time it takes to document what went wrong and
> pondering how long it will take to be corrected. I often
> wonder why a problem I've seen for two years hasn't
> been reported by another company and that's what leads
> me to the question, how many companies out there are using
> the product.
>
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>
> John Glaszer
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> * IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 *
> http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA *
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in
> IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery
> preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the
> Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the
> IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place,
> see the latest IDUG conference information and much more.
> If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG,
> available at no cost, click on Member Services at
> http://www.idug.org/lsms

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA *
______________________________________________________________________



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

Roger Hecq

Re: IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
(in response to Edward Long)
My experience has been comparable to your analogy. The BMC tools are more costly than the IBM tools, but the productivity savings definitely justify the additional cost. We use Catalog Mgr, Change Mgr, and Log Master and they have paid for themselves repeatedly.

Roger Hecq
MF IB USA DB Support
203-719-0492 / 19-337-0492


________________________________

From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of JOANN GLAZEWSKI
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:32 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)


Hello,

In January 2006 we converted from using BMC Catalog Manager to IBM's DB2 Admin Tool for the cost savings. The best analogy I can use to describe the changeover is an automotive one. We had been driving a Lexus and now we are driving a 'Vette. Unfortunately it's a Chevette, not a Corvette. The best thing I can say about the IBM Tool is that it's adequate, but I would not recommend it to anyone unless their other option was no tools at all. My main complaint is not the number of problems with the IBM Tool, it¢s the length of time it takes to get even the smallest problems fixed.

I would like to find out how many sites are using the IBM DB2 Admin Tool. My reason for asking is I don't feel it's a very large group of companies, so IBM receives a fairly small amount of feedback on problems and this contributes to the time it takes to get things fixed. I also stand guilty of not reporting every problem I encounter due to the time it takes to document what went wrong and pondering how long it will take to be corrected. I often wonder why a problem I've seen for two years hasn't been reported by another company and that's what leads me to the question, how many companies out there are using the product.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

John Glaszer

________________________________


IDUG 2009 - North America * May 11-15, 2009 * Denver, CO, USA < http://idug.org/lsNA >

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at IDUG.ORG <http://www.idug.org/lsidug> under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information <http://www.idug.org/lsconf> , and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services < http://www.idug.org/lsms >


______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/Events *
______________________________________________________________________




IDUG.org was recently updated requiring members to use a new password. You should have gotten an e-mail with the temporary password assigned to your account. Please log in and update your member profile. If you are not already an IDUG.org member, please register at http://www.idug.org/component/juser/register.html

Roger Hecq

Re: IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
(in response to Roger Hecq)
Agreed, if you don't use or need the tool, then the IBM tool may be satisfactory. If you need a real tool, then you need to buy one, and they cost more.

Roger Hecq
MF IB USA DB Support
203-719-0492 / 19-337-0492

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Ed Long
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:48 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)

To an MBA, the IBM tools have a strong value proposition, they tend to be cheap. Since a manager or an MBA doesn't know or care what a drop recovery script is, they assume functional equivalence. That has not been my experience and I once drove a Chevette!

To some degree, the lack of response to your question helps answer your question.

ADB has come a long way since the V3/V4 era when, in my experience, virtually nothing worked, especially when dealing with complex views, LOBS, or SQL stored procs.

Whether its now on a par with BMC, CA, or COMPUWARE, after 10 years of trying, I suspect, depends upon your requirements. The less you need, the better it looks.

Regarding IBM support, frankly, I gave up too. If ADB does what I want, and I can prove by other means that its not screwing up, then great. If not, then I go back to writing scripts, programs or my own tricks.

Oracle and SQL/SERVER come with fully integrated, easy to use, easy to install, reliable tools that don't require multiple installs of confusing product streams. Why can't DB2 on z/OS?

Edward Long


--- On Fri, 12/19/08, JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:31 PM Hello,
>  
> In January 2006 we converted from using BMC Catalog Manager to IBM's
> DB2 Admin Tool for the cost savings. The best analogy I can use to
> describe the changeover is an automotive one. We had been driving a
> Lexus and now we are driving a 'Vette. Unfortunately it's a Chevette,
> not a Corvette. The best thing I can say about the IBM Tool is that
> it's adequate, but I would not recommend it to anyone unless their
> other option was no tools at all. My main complaint is not the number
> of problems with the IBM Tool, it's the length of time it takes to get
> even the smallest problems fixed.
>  
> I would like to find out how many sites are using the IBM
> DB2 Admin Tool. My reason for asking is I don't feel it's a very large
> group of companies, so IBM receives a fairly small amount of feedback
> on problems and this contributes to the time it takes to get things
> fixed. I also stand guilty of not reporting every problem I encounter
> due to the time it takes to document what went wrong and pondering how
> long it will take to be corrected. I often wonder why a problem I've
> seen for two years hasn't been reported by another company and that's
> what leads me to the question, how many companies out there are using
> the product.
>  
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>  
> John Glaszer
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> * IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA *
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The
> DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at
> http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site,
> you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and
> Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more.
> If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available
> at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA * ______________________________________________________________________



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms
Visit our website at http://www.ubs.com

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Gary L Joehlin

Re: IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
(in response to Roger Hecq)
I've used the ADB tool on DB2 V7 and V8.

Because of past issues, we are stuck with an older release of the ADB tool.

Have the following been addressed?

The ability for the tool to change the LOAD utility statements to convert to use:
LOAD REPLACE (especially when not dropping DDL to another environment) so you don't have to manually change the hundreds)
NOCOPYPEND, for the same reasons above

Have the displays been adjusted to show a FULL timestamp, particularly on detail screens of when an object was last altered? Trailing parts have been truncated in the past.

Has the RI-'Tree' display been reworked so that it's meaningful? It had a haphazard approach which didn't help to clearly visualize parent-child-grandchild relationships (like the platinum tool does).

Those were a few of my most memorables.

Happy Holiday!


-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Roger Hecq
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:49 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)

Agreed, if you don't use or need the tool, then the IBM tool may be satisfactory. If you need a real tool, then you need to buy one, and they cost more.

Roger Hecq
MF IB USA DB Support
203-719-0492 / 19-337-0492

-----Original Message-----
From: DB2 Data Base Discussion List [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Ed Long
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:48 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)

To an MBA, the IBM tools have a strong value proposition, they tend to be cheap. Since a manager or an MBA doesn't know or care what a drop recovery script is, they assume functional equivalence. That has not been my experience and I once drove a Chevette!

To some degree, the lack of response to your question helps answer your question.

ADB has come a long way since the V3/V4 era when, in my experience, virtually nothing worked, especially when dealing with complex views, LOBS, or SQL stored procs.

Whether its now on a par with BMC, CA, or COMPUWARE, after 10 years of trying, I suspect, depends upon your requirements. The less you need, the better it looks.

Regarding IBM support, frankly, I gave up too. If ADB does what I want, and I can prove by other means that its not screwing up, then great. If not, then I go back to writing scripts, programs or my own tricks.

Oracle and SQL/SERVER come with fully integrated, easy to use, easy to install, reliable tools that don't require multiple installs of confusing product streams. Why can't DB2 on z/OS?

Edward Long


--- On Fri, 12/19/08, JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: JOANN GLAZEWSKI <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: [DB2-L] IBM DB2 Admin Tool Survey (z/OS)
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:31 PM Hello,
>  
> In January 2006 we converted from using BMC Catalog Manager to IBM's
> DB2 Admin Tool for the cost savings. The best analogy I can use to
> describe the changeover is an automotive one. We had been driving a
> Lexus and now we are driving a 'Vette. Unfortunately it's a Chevette,
> not a Corvette. The best thing I can say about the IBM Tool is that
> it's adequate, but I would not recommend it to anyone unless their
> other option was no tools at all. My main complaint is not the number
> of problems with the IBM Tool, it's the length of time it takes to get
> even the smallest problems fixed.
>  
> I would like to find out how many sites are using the IBM
> DB2 Admin Tool. My reason for asking is I don't feel it's a very large
> group of companies, so IBM receives a fairly small amount of feedback
> on problems and this contributes to the time it takes to get things
> fixed. I also stand guilty of not reporting every problem I encounter
> due to the time it takes to document what went wrong and pondering how
> long it will take to be corrected. I often wonder why a problem I've
> seen for two years hasn't been reported by another company and that's
> what leads me to the question, how many companies out there are using
> the product.
>  
> Thanks in advance for your responses.
>  
> John Glaszer
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> * IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA *
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The
> DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at
> http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site,
> you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and
> Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more.
> If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available
> at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/lsNA * ______________________________________________________________________



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. The DB2-L list archives, FAQ, and delivery preferences are at http://www.idug.org/lsidug under the Listserv tab. While at the site, you can also access the IDUG Online Learning Center, Tech Library and Code Place, see the latest IDUG conference information and much more. If you have not yet signed up for Basic Membership in IDUG, available at no cost, click on Member Services at http://www.idug.org/lsms
Visit our website at http://www.ubs.com

This message contains confidential information and is intended only
for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please
notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.

E-mails are not encrypted and cannot be guaranteed to be secure or
error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender
therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the
contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This
message is provided for informational purposes and should not be
construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities
or related financial instruments.

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/Events *
______________________________________________________________________




IDUG.org was recently updated requiring members to use a new password. You should have gotten an e-mail with the temporary password assigned to your account. Please log in and update your member profile. If you are not already an IDUG.org member, please register at http://www.idug.org/component/juser/register.html

______________________________________________________________________

* IDUG 2009 Denver, CO, USA * May 11-15, 2009 * http://IDUG.ORG/Events *
______________________________________________________________________




IDUG.org was recently updated requiring members to use a new password. You should have gotten an e-mail with the temporary password assigned to your account. Please log in and update your member profile. If you are not already an IDUG.org member, please register at http://www.idug.org/component/juser/register.html