Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?

Mark Labby

Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?

We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT.  Has anyone actually been using this technology for their backups?  

Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy.  For example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the 'remote' copy?  If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.  

If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you think of it.


Mark Labby

Senior Database Administrator
American Education Services/PHEAA
717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]

International DB2 Users Group
Board of Directors,  VP Marketing
[login to unmask email] ===== This message contains privileged and confidential information intended for the above addressees only. If you receive this message in error please delete or destroy this message and/or attachments. The sender of this message will fully cooperate in the civil and criminal prosecution of any individual engaging in the unauthorized use of this message. =====


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James Campbell

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Mark Labby)
Most (all that the I know of - but there might be some I don't know of) virtual tape subsystems
actually use real tapes. What they do is map "virtual tapes" (what z/OS sees as a tape) as
individual datasets (or something similar) on the backing tapes. When z/OS writes a "tape",
the data is written to disk, but is eventually written to real tape.

What you need to the do if you have dual local archives is to make sure that they do not end
up on the same real tape - you are now down to a single point of failure. (Been there, ouch.)
Ensure you have two local VTSs and the archives are split; or write one copy to tape, and the
other to a disk volume which is immediately HSM migrated. HSM can (if set up
appropraitely) make its own direct use of the real reels (sorry, couldn't resist)

James Campbell

On 4 Nov 2009 at 14:19, Mark Labby - AES wrote:

>
>
> We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been
> looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using
> this technology for their backups?
>
> Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at
> the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For
> example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the
> 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually
> have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.
>
> If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you
> think of it.
>
>
> Mark Labby
>
> Senior Database Administrator
> American Education Services/PHEAA
> 717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]
> International DB2 Users Group
> Board of Directors, VP Marketing
> [login to unmask email]

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/rug/index.html - with almost 150 IDUG Regional User Groups,
there is probably one near you!
Regional User Groups are your local connection to the Worldwide DB2 User Community
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

Hal Govan

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to James Campbell)
Another variation on this idea which we have been using is to have dual
virtual tape systems, one local and the other at a remote D/R site.


Hal Govan
Senior Database Administrator
Reed Elsevier - Technology Services
[login to unmask email]
Phone: (937) 865-7820


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of James
Campbell
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:31 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?

Most (all that the I know of - but there might be some I don't know of)
virtual tape subsystems
actually use real tapes. What they do is map "virtual tapes" (what z/OS
sees as a tape) as
individual datasets (or something similar) on the backing tapes. When
z/OS writes a "tape",
the data is written to disk, but is eventually written to real tape.

What you need to the do if you have dual local archives is to make sure
that they do not end
up on the same real tape - you are now down to a single point of
failure. (Been there, ouch.)
Ensure you have two local VTSs and the archives are split; or write one
copy to tape, and the
other to a disk volume which is immediately HSM migrated. HSM can (if
set up
appropraitely) make its own direct use of the real reels (sorry,
couldn't resist)

James Campbell

On 4 Nov 2009 at 14:19, Mark Labby - AES wrote:

>
>
> We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2
backups and have been
> looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has
anyone actually been using
> this technology for their backups?
>
> Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to
replicate the data to a box at
> the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current
recovery strategy. For
> example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I
also need to create the
> 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is
replicated, then I actually
> have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD
requirement.
>
> If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in
how you laid it out and what you
> think of it.
>
>
> Mark Labby
>
> Senior Database Administrator
> American Education Services/PHEAA
> 717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]
> International DB2 Users Group
> Board of Directors, VP Marketing
> [login to unmask email]

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 *
http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/rug/index.html - with almost 150 IDUG Regional User
Groups,
there is probably one near you!
Regional User Groups are your local connection to the Worldwide DB2 User
Community
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/rug/index.html - with almost 150 IDUG Regional User Groups,
there is probably one near you!
Regional User Groups are your local connection to the Worldwide DB2 User Community
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

Mark Labby

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Hal Govan)

We have VTS now, and use that along with real tape for the offsite copy.  This is different - well, more enhanced - hardware that does not need tape at the backend.  The IBM TS7720 never goes to tape, so it is a very large virtual pool of DASD.  We are looking to see if we can get away from tapes, and IBM is saying we can, but I wanted to know if anyone has actually gotten it to work.  I'm seeing a lot of pitfalls here, and leery...





From: "James Campbell" <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: 11/05/2009 07:01 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
Sent by: "IDUG DB2-L" <[login to unmask email]>





Most (all that the I know of - but there might be some I don't know of) virtual tape subsystems
actually use real tapes.  What they do is map "virtual tapes" (what z/OS sees as a tape) as
individual datasets (or something similar) on the backing tapes.  When z/OS writes a "tape",
the data is written to disk, but is eventually written to real tape.

What you need to the do if you have dual local archives is to make sure that they do not end
up on the same real tape - you are now down to a single point of failure. (Been there, ouch.)  
Ensure you have two local VTSs and the archives are split; or write one copy to tape, and the
other to a disk volume which is immediately HSM migrated.  HSM can (if set up
appropraitely) make its own direct use of the real reels (sorry, couldn't resist)

James Campbell

On 4 Nov 2009 at 14:19, Mark Labby - AES wrote:

>
>
> We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been
> looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using
> this technology for their backups?
>
> Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at
> the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For
> example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the
> 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually
> have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.
>
> If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you
> think of it.
>
>
> Mark Labby
>
> Senior Database Administrator
> American Education Services/PHEAA
> 717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]
> International DB2 Users Group
> Board of Directors, VP Marketing
> [login to unmask email]

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 *  
http://IDUG.ORG/NA*
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/rug/index.html- with almost 150 IDUG Regional User Groups,
there is probably one near you!
Regional User Groups are your local connection to the Worldwide DB2 User Community
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings,
http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-Lis the home of IDUG's DB2-L




===== This message contains privileged and confidential information intended for the above addressees only. If you receive this message in error please delete or destroy this message and/or attachments. The sender of this message will fully cooperate in the civil and criminal prosecution of any individual engaging in the unauthorized use of this message. =====

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.

Mark Labby

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Mark Labby)

We have VTS now, and use that along with real tape for the offsite copy.  This is different - well, more enhanced - hardware that does not need tape at the backend.  The IBM TS7720 never goes to tape, so it is a very large virtual pool of DASD.  We are looking to see if we can get away from tapes, and IBM is saying we can, but I wanted to know if anyone has actually gotten it to work.  I'm seeing a lot of pitfalls here, and leery...





From: "James Campbell" <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: 11/05/2009 07:01 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
Sent by: "IDUG DB2-L" <[login to unmask email]>





Most (all that the I know of - but there might be some I don't know of) virtual tape subsystems
actually use real tapes.  What they do is map "virtual tapes" (what z/OS sees as a tape) as
individual datasets (or something similar) on the backing tapes.  When z/OS writes a "tape",
the data is written to disk, but is eventually written to real tape.

What you need to the do if you have dual local archives is to make sure that they do not end
up on the same real tape - you are now down to a single point of failure. (Been there, ouch.)  
Ensure you have two local VTSs and the archives are split; or write one copy to tape, and the
other to a disk volume which is immediately HSM migrated.  HSM can (if set up
appropraitely) make its own direct use of the real reels (sorry, couldn't resist)

James Campbell

On 4 Nov 2009 at 14:19, Mark Labby - AES wrote:

>
>
> We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been
> looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using
> this technology for their backups?
>
> Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at
> the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For
> example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the
> 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually
> have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.
>
> If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you
> think of it.
>
>
> Mark Labby
>
> Senior Database Administrator
> American Education Services/PHEAA
> 717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]
> International DB2 Users Group
> Board of Directors, VP Marketing
> [login to unmask email]

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 *  
http://IDUG.ORG/NA*
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/rug/index.html- with almost 150 IDUG Regional User Groups,
there is probably one near you!
Regional User Groups are your local connection to the Worldwide DB2 User Community
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings,
http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-Lis the home of IDUG's DB2-L




===== This message contains privileged and confidential information intended for the above addressees only. If you receive this message in error please delete or destroy this message and/or attachments. The sender of this message will fully cooperate in the civil and criminal prosecution of any individual engaging in the unauthorized use of this message. =====

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.

Lizette Koehler

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Mark Labby)
body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}p{margin:0px}One thing I have heard (I do not have a TS77xx device) is that you can dump your database from the TS77xx and take it directly to DR or FTP it to DR and all of your tapes are there. 

Since I do not have one, I can not verify this statement.  But you would need to make sure that your contract for DR includes this function in it.  We have looked at this and the costs are a little high for us at this time.  However, if you have your own internal DR site, then it should not be much of an issue.

Lizette



We have VTS now, and use that along with real tape for the offsite copy.  This is different - well, more enhanced - hardware that does not need tape at the backend.  The IBM TS7720 never goes to tape, so it is a very large virtual pool of DASD.  We are looking to see if we can get away from tapes, and IBM is saying we can, but I wanted to know if anyone has actually gotten it to work.  I'm seeing a lot of pitfalls here, and leery...





From: "James Campbell" <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: 11/05/2009 07:01 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
Sent by: "IDUG DB2-L" <[login to unmask email]>





Most (all that the I know of - but there might be some I don't know of) virtual tape subsystems
actually use real tapes.  What they do is map "virtual tapes" (what z/OS sees as a tape) as
individual datasets (or something similar) on the backing tapes.  When z/OS writes a "tape",
the data is written to disk, but is eventually written to real tape.

What you need to the do if you have dual local archives is to make sure that they do not end
up on the same real tape - you are now down to a single point of failure. (Been there, ouch.)  
Ensure you have two local VTSs and the archives are split; or write one copy to tape, and the
other to a disk volume which is immediately HSM migrated.  HSM can (if set up
appropraitely) make its own direct use of the real reels (sorry, couldn't resist)

James Campbell

On 4 Nov 2009 at 14:19, Mark Labby - AES wrote:

>
>
> We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been
> looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using
> this technology for their backups?
>
> Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at
> the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For
> example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the
> 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually
> have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.
>
> If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you
> think of it.
>
>



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.

Johnny Wilder

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Lizette Koehler)
We use Luminex http://www.luminex.com/ for our virtual tape system. Both DB2 archive logs and image copies are now virtual tape (disk) for us. Image copy clock time was cut in half after we switched. I was a little nervous using this for DB2 archive logs, but there has never been a problem. We also use Data Domain's deduplication http://www.datadomain.com/ to send all of our virtual tape backups to our DR site. For DB2 we use dual logging and deduplicate both to our DR site at archive log time. We have an in house written DR process for DB2 that runs each time a DB2 log is archived. This process builds recovery jobs for DB2 that includes the last DB2 log that was just archived. Those recovery jobs and information are backed up to virtual tape and deduplicated to our DR site. This assures we are able to recover up to the last DB2 archive log created and successfully transferred to our DR site. During the day we archive DB2 logs about every hour. Losing 1 hour of processing for a true disaster is not too bad. This technology has really made our DR recovery more simple and our recovery point more current.

Johnny Wilder.
Motion Industries.

________________________________
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Mark Labby - AES
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?


We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using this technology for their backups?

Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.

If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you think of it.


Mark Labby

Senior Database Administrator
American Education Services/PHEAA
717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]<mailto:[login to unmask email]>

International DB2 Users Group
Board of Directors, VP Marketing
[login to unmask email]<mailto:[login to unmask email]> ====== This message contains privileged and confidential information intended for the above addressees only. If you receive this message in error please delete or destroy this message and/or attachments. The sender of this message will fully cooperate in the civil and criminal prosecution of any individual engaging in the unauthorized use of this message. ======

________________________________

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Jim Tonchick

Re: Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?
(in response to Johnny Wilder)

You still might consider copying your archived logs from the virtual tapes at the DR site to disk to allow for parallel recover jobs to use the same archlog at the same time. I mention this because while your V-tape device uses internal disk with its I/O speed advantages, it is still genned to the operating system as a physical tape device that cannot be shared by multiple tasks.

Jim Tonchick
Unitrin Data Services



-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Wilder <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:52 am
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?



We use Luminex http://www.luminex.com/ for our virtual tape system. Both DB2 archive logs and image copies are now virtual tape (disk) for us. Image copy clock time was cut in half after we switched. I was a little nervous using this for DB2 archive logs, but there has never been a problem.. We also use Data Domain’s deduplication http://www.datadomain.com/ to send all of our virtual tape backups to our DR site. For DB2 we use dual logging and deduplicate both to our DR site at archive log time. We have an in house written DR process for DB2 that runs each time a DB2 log is archived. This process builds recovery jobs for DB2 that includes the last DB2 log that was just archived. Those recovery jobs and information are backed up to virtual tape and deduplicated to our DR site. This assures we are able to recover up to the last DB2 archive log created and successfully transferred to our DR site. During the day we archive DB2 logs about every hour. Losing 1 hour of processing for a true disaster is not too bad. This technology has really made our DR recovery more simple and our recovery point more current.

Johnny Wilder.
Motion Industries.



From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Mark Labby - AES
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] Tape on DASD for DB2 backups?



We have been exploring moving away from tape for any of our DB2 backups and have been looking at things like the IBM TS7740 and TS7720, or HDS VLT. Has anyone actually been using this technology for their backups?

Just in discussing it, there are implications on how we might want to replicate the data to a box at the DR site, and how it would change the configuration of our current recovery strategy. For example, if my local backup is being replicated at the DR site, do I also need to create the 'remote' copy? If I create both a local and remote, and everything is replicated, then I actually have 4 copies on DASD instead of two, which greatly increases the DASD requirement.

If anyone has been using this type of technology, I'd be curious in how you laid it out and what you think of it.


Mark Labby

Senior Database Administrator
American Education Services/PHEAA
717-720-2731 -- [login to unmask email]
International DB2 Users Group
Board of Directors, VP Marketing
[login to unmask email] ====== This message contains privileged and confidential information intended for the above addressees only. If you receive this message in error please delete or destroy this message and/or attachments. The sender of this message will fully cooperate in the civil and criminal prosecution of any individual engaging in the unauthorized use of this message. ======


The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.
The information in this communication, including any attachments, is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.


The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.


_____________________________________________________________________

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