VCAT HLQ question - replies appreciated!

Roy Reynolds

VCAT HLQ question - replies appreciated!
Many thanks for weighing in on this, all of you!
The 'weight of opinion and experience' offered by this significant-DBA
worldwide neighborhood is invaluable.
Even this DBA who started with tape based 'experimental databases' in the
late 60s is humbled by your generosity.
Cheers,
Roy

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David Simpson

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Roy Reynolds)
-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:43 AM
To: [login to unmask email] <[login to unmask email]>
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question


You might want to check to see how the applications are charged for their dasd usage. I'd bet that they are billed by highlevel. This goes beyond the concept of "ownership" and adds a level of complexity to any proposed change since you'll have to get by in from management to change the IT chargeback algorithms.

OK, that being said, get the backing of management and get those highlevels changed. Time does not stand still and applications change all the time. So it's about time to change this hold over from pre-Y2K days, especially if you want to take advantage of the BACKUP SYSTEM utilities for disaster recovery.

Jim Tonchick




-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Ebert <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question



An application can't even know the HLQ unless they query the Catalog, and I can't imagine any scenario in which the HLQ would even make a difference for anything an app might want to do with a database. Ask your manager to ask the other manager for a valid business case why they should "own" the HLQ.

Dr. Michael Ebert
DB2 & Oracle Database Administrator
aMaDEUS Data Processing
Erding / Munich, Germany





Roy Reynolds <[login to unmask email]>


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[DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question










Roy Reynolds <[login to unmask email]>
Please respond to : IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
Sent by: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
11-01-10 17:20





I inherited several subsystems that exclusively use VCATs. The applications
were old VSAM apps back in the late 80s. When they were moved to DB2 the
application group person acting as DBA insisted that all the HLQs remain
unchanged. So the Dev environment still has HLQs like PR1, PR2, PR3, PR4,
etc. Likewise, the QA and Prod environments use the same HLQs for their DB2
VSAM Linear datasets. The differences between the enviroments are in the DB
name level. They use DB names like PR1XYZD for Dev, PR1XYZQ for QA, and
PR1XYZA or PR1XYZB or PR1XYZC for Prod. The leftmost three characters
always match the HLQ. I've proposed changing the HLQs to use the DataSharing
group name such as DB2D, DB2Q, or DB2P. I was amazed to get swift pushback
from an application group leader who insisted these dataset names were the
property of applications and 'current' DBA group had no right to suggest
such a change.
We are still on z/OS DB2 V8. I've been converting all the VCAT tablespaces
to STOGROUPs but keeping the existing HLQs. My direction/intention is to use
a simple SMS ACS routine to group each subsystem's datasets onto a specific
group of volumes so they could be backed up and recovered without being
intermixed with other subsystem's datasets as they are now. I know V9 has a
lot more SMS assignment capability but I don't want to wait until migrating
there.
There are plans here to incorporate other applications that don't use this
'old' naming pattern. The variety of HLQs will be confusing.
Does anyone have a really simple, really sensible document that can be
recommended as a 'best practices' outline for assigning STOGROUP HLQs?
In other shops, I've used SYSDEFLT exclusively as the STOGROUP where its
VCAT name was the subsystem name or the Group name. That has been very
satisfactory for me in the past. Can someone weigh in on this discussion
please.
Thanks in advance.

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Jerry Boehm

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to David Simpson)
FWIW ... In our shop, DASD usage is allocated via SMS (which is
HLQ-sensitive) but is charged at a volume level (regardless of the
dataset names found on the volume).

Regards,
Jerry Boehm
NY State Dept of Transportation
Albany, NY

>>> On 1/12/2010 at 12:58 AM, [login to unmask email] wrote:

You might want to check to see how the applications are charged for
their dasd usage. I'd bet that they are billed by highlevel. This goes
beyond the concept of "ownership" and adds a level of complexity to any
proposed change since you'll have to get by in from management to change
the IT chargeback algorithms.


OK, that being said, get the backing of management and get those
highlevels changed. Time does not stand still and applications change
all the time. So it's about time to change this hold over from pre-Y2K
days, especially if you want to take advantage of the BACKUP SYSTEM
utilities for disaster recovery.

Jim Tonchick



_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

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DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
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Max Scarpa

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Jerry Boehm)
...so if there's an ACS routine error and your files go to another volume
you don't pay for that space.....? I saw it in the past (files in the
wrong volumes I mean).





Jerry Boehm <[login to unmask email]>
Sent by: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
14/01/2010 16.08
Please respond to
IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>


To
[login to unmask email]
cc

Subject
Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question






FWIW ... In our shop, DASD usage is allocated via SMS (which is
HLQ-sensitive) but is charged at a volume level (regardless of the dataset
names found on the volume).

Regards,
Jerry Boehm
NY State Dept of Transportation
Albany, NY

>>> On 1/12/2010 at 12:58 AM, [login to unmask email] wrote:
You might want to check to see how the applications are charged for their
dasd usage. I'd bet that they are billed by highlevel. This goes beyond
the concept of "ownership" and adds a level of complexity to any proposed
change since you'll have to get by in from management to change the IT
chargeback algorithms.

OK, that being said, get the backing of management and get those
highlevels changed. Time does not stand still and applications change all
the time. So it's about time to change this hold over from pre-Y2K days,
especially if you want to take advantage of the BACKUP SYSTEM utilities
for disaster recovery.

Jim Tonchick





The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you
are not already an IDUG member, please register here.

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

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DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
Whether you are an old hand or a DB2 newbie, we have presentations for every level.
_____________________________________________________________________

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Carol Anne Sutfin

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Max Scarpa)
Happens all the time.

Create the file uses the ACS routines and places it on volume 123456.

Use 3.4 is ISPF to RENAME the file to something else and it will not get
moved. It stays on 123456 instead of being on ABCDEF.

Happens here all of the time. Test files in the Production DASD pool
because someone changed the name.
or worse PROD files in the Test pool that do not get "flashed" to the DR
site because they are not on DASD that gets copied.

"oh, does that matter?" said the development manger.

Carol Sutfin
Corporate DBA
Regions Financial Corp.
(205)261-5214
[login to unmask email]



From: Max Scarpa <[login to unmask email]>

To: [login to unmask email]

Date: 01/14/2010 10:25 AM

Subject: Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question

Sent by: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>







...so if there's an ACS routine error and your files go to another volume
you don't pay for that space.....? I saw it in the past (files in the wrong
volumes I mean).




Jerry Boehm <[login to unmask email]>
Sent by: IDUG DB2-L
<[login to unmask email]> To
[login to unmask email]
G
14/01/2010 16.08 cc

Subject
Please respond to Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ
IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]> question












FWIW ... In our shop, DASD usage is allocated via SMS (which is
HLQ-sensitive) but is charged at a volume level (regardless of the dataset
names found on the volume).

Regards,
Jerry Boehm
NY State Dept of Transportation
Albany, NY

>>> On 1/12/2010 at 12:58 AM, [login to unmask email] wrote:
You might want to check to see how the applications are charged for their
dasd usage. I'd bet that they are billed by highlevel. This goes beyond
the concept of "ownership" and adds a level of complexity to any proposed
change since you'll have to get by in from management to change the IT
chargeback algorithms.

OK, that being said, get the backing of management and get those highlevels
changed. Time does not stand still and applications change all the time.
So it's about time to change this hold over from pre-Y2K days, especially
if you want to take advantage of the BACKUP SYSTEM utilities for disaster
recovery.

Jim Tonchick









The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
not already an IDUG member, please register here.









The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
not already an IDUG member, please register here.

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/db2-content/index.html has THOUSANDS of free technical presentations!
DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
Whether you are an old hand or a DB2 newbie, we have presentations for every level.
_____________________________________________________________________

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Jerry Boehm

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Carol Anne Sutfin)
Well, not quite true. What I didn't mention is that we as a database
group are not specifically charged. The use of any volumes (which are on
a machine hosted by a different state agency) is charged at the agency
level (Dept of Transportation). So DOT still gets charged.

Regards,
Jerry Boehm
NY State Dept of Transportation
Albany, NY

>>> On 1/14/2010 at 10:44 AM, [login to unmask email] wrote:

...so if there's an ACS routine error and your files go to another
volume you don't pay for that space.....? I saw it in the past (files in
the wrong volumes I mean).





Jerry Boehm <[login to unmask email]>
Sent by: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
14/01/2010 16.08
Please respond to
IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>


To
[login to unmask email] cc
Subject
Re: [DB2-L] VCAT HLQ question






FWIW ... In our shop, DASD usage is allocated via SMS (which is
HLQ-sensitive) but is charged at a volume level (regardless of the
dataset names found on the volume).

Regards,
Jerry Boehm
NY State Dept of Transportation
Albany, NY


_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/db2-content/index.html has THOUSANDS of free technical presentations!
DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
Whether you are an old hand or a DB2 newbie, we have presentations for every level.
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

Max Scarpa

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Jerry Boehm)
Or someone who has a 'power user' rename file from 'xyz' to 'abc' and then
she/he executes a migrate/recall via HSM to move files to another volume.
And, if guaranteed space is activated for that pool/name, files are moved
to, just to say, some system dasd pack, almost filling it...... . You can
easily imagine consequencs.

This can happen if you have weak control on dasd packs.

Max Scarpa
DB2 for z-spectrum sysprog






_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

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DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
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Ted MacNEIL

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Max Scarpa)
>Use 3.4 is ISPF to RENAME the file to something else and it will not get
moved.
>It stays on 123456 instead of being on ABCDEF.

When SMS was first introduced, just about 20 years ago, I was one of the proponents of re-driving the ACS routines after re-name.
IBM said it was too resource-consumptive, but with:

FlashCopy
PPRC
ChargeBack
ETC

there is a requirement, far out-wheighing the overhead issues.

At least, change the Management Class if the HLQ requires a different one after re-name.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.idug.org/db2-content/index.html has THOUSANDS of free technical presentations!
DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
Whether you are an old hand or a DB2 newbie, we have presentations for every level.
_____________________________________________________________________

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Ted MacNEIL

Re: VCAT HLQ question
(in response to Ted MacNEIL)
>Or someone who has a 'power user' rename file from 'xyz' to 'abc' and then she/he executes a migrate/recall via HSM to move files to another volume.

At least, a recall re-drives the ACS routines, whereas a re-name doesn't.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
_____________________________________________________________________

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DB2 LUW, DB2 z/OS, Performance, Installation, Tuning, Coding, BI, Warehouses, - among
many more categories of help waiting for you!
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