Antwort: [DB2-L] IBM announces DB2 10 for z/OS Beta

Georg Peter

Antwort: [DB2-L] IBM announces DB2 10 for z/OS Beta
Bon soir, Willie.

Boah, a lot of companies here in Germany are changing there database
systems. Truely a lot went over to Oracle 11g. They are leaving the big
iron and they are going to another platform - it is LINUX on a
64-bit-machine.

And what I (an old mainframe dino (starting with DB2 V1.3) & IDUG
veteran) have seen in the announcement - there is in V10 of DB for z/OS
- no real good argument to stay on the big iron.

Do you have some GOOD arguments to stay for my boss ? I hope so, please
;-)

With kind regards - mit freundlichen Gruessen,
Georg H. Peter
c/o Datenzentrale Baden-Wuerttemberg
Software Development & Technology Center
Knowledge Center Database Systems
Krailenshaldenstrasse 44, 70469 Stuttgart, Germany, Europe
e:mail [login to unmask email]
Phone 0049-711-8108-271
PC-Fax 004971189696071
Internet (only in german language):http://www.dzbw.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In nature, nothing is ever right. Therefore, if everything is going
right ... something is wrong.

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
** If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it!

_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to $1600 off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

Max Scarpa

Re: Antwort: [DB2-L] IBM announces DB2 10 for z/OS Beta
(in response to Georg Peter)
Hi Peter Georg

The same here.

Mainframe - as I said many times - is almost disappeared in Italy. A lot
of public agencies/departments moved to less expensive platforms
(LINUX,UNIX) and less expensive databases (My SQL,SQL server, etc). I know
at least 5 companies which migrated to LINUX/MySQL or UNIX/ORACLE and at
least 2 are medium to big companies. DB2 experts (apart some exceptions)
but in general MF experts are payed every year less (even because there's
a lot of retired people still working as consultant, a sort of unfair
competition) so making MF jobs less attractive.

Companies needing more power move to big UNIX machines and ORACLE as db,
probably because ORACLE is America's Cup challenger, in some cases it
seems to me the only reason to migrate to it. Only big banks are still
using mainframe, but moving a lot of workload outside. If you want to
continue to work as MF expert you've to move at least 200/300 km from your
home, with all the costs you've to pay. It looks like, if there won't be
any change, MF will remain a machine for few, big companies, as it's
happening here.

During years, working as MVS/DB2 sysprog and DBA, I saw many advantages in
using mainframe but how can I justify, for instance, the big difference
in the bill moving from V7 to V8, without using any of the new features or
only very few ? Why should I move to next DB2 version if I don't need
these new features (here XML is still largely unknown), I have to pay a
lot more, I've problems in finding skilled people and I have other
platforms available at lesser price ? Even BC class servers don't seems
attract new customers. WLC is stil complicated to manage (do you know how
many SMF records you've to extract/process ?), less attractive and with
many limits (and high costs) if you need more power for brief periods. And
it's used only by IBM products.

DB2 V7 to V8 migration, with the triple jump, scared a lot of people and
gave other arguments to DB2 detractors (I heard them so many times....).
I migrated from V7 to V8 with some people really scared. If this is the
future I see more people unhappy to migrate and/or use DB2.

And I think I'm losing my hair for all these reason. But in the same time
I don't think moving from DB2 to Oracle should cause their
regrowth.........

Max Scarpa
Certified DB2 sysghost
Certified hair regrowth experimenter











_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
** Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information.


** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L

Robert Knight

Re: Antwort: [DB2-L] IBM announces DB2 10 for z/OS Beta
(in response to Max Scarpa)
Mainframe - as I said many times - is almost disappeared in Italy. The same holds true for Pittsburgh. After the Steel Mills went south along with it was all supporting industries.
I don't believe there are more than a 5-6 M/F environments left in the city. When contracting I was involved with 4 data center consolidations which eventually led to the migration to Oracle and offshore.
Currently I am working with clients to support environments which are moving off the M/F with no intention of any further upgrades.

I don't see V10 in my future.

Bob Knight

________________________________
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Max Scarpa
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:56 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Antwort: [DB2-L] IBM announces DB2 10 for z/OS Beta


Hi Peter Georg

The same here.

Mainframe - as I said many times - is almost disappeared in Italy. A lot of public agencies/departments moved to less expensive platforms (LINUX,UNIX) and less expensive databases (My SQL,SQL server, etc). I know at least 5 companies which migrated to LINUX/MySQL or UNIX/ORACLE and at least 2 are medium to big companies. DB2 experts (apart some exceptions) but in general MF experts are payed every year less (even because there's a lot of retired people still working as consultant, a sort of unfair competition) so making MF jobs less attractive.

Companies needing more power move to big UNIX machines and ORACLE as db, probably because ORACLE is America's Cup challenger, in some cases it seems to me the only reason to migrate to it. Only big banks are still using mainframe, but moving a lot of workload outside. If you want to continue to work as MF expert you've to move at least 200/300 km from your home, with all the costs you've to pay. It looks like, if there won't be any change, MF will remain a machine for few, big companies, as it's happening here.

During years, working as MVS/DB2 sysprog and DBA, I saw many advantages in using mainframe but how can I justify, for instance, the big difference in the bill moving from V7 to V8, without using any of the new features or only very few ? Why should I move to next DB2 version if I don't need these new features (here XML is still largely unknown), I have to pay a lot more, I've problems in finding skilled people and I have other platforms available at lesser price ? Even BC class servers don't seems attract new customers. WLC is stil complicated to manage (do you know how many SMF records you've to extract/process ?), less attractive and with many limits (and high costs) if you need more power for brief periods. And it's used only by IBM products.

DB2 V7 to V8 migration, with the triple jump, scared a lot of people and gave other arguments to DB2 detractors (I heard them so many times....). I migrated from V7 to V8 with some people really scared. If this is the future I see more people unhappy to migrate and/or use DB2.

And I think I'm losing my hair for all these reason. But in the same time I don't think moving from DB2 to Oracle should cause their regrowth.........

Max Scarpa
Certified DB2 sysghost
Certified hair regrowth experimenter











________________________________

[ http://www.idug.org/partners/www/images/4992e0ad2d01c9c12dd8a4e7a161cd08.gif ] < http://www.idug.org/top-spotlight/mentor.html >

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >

_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Tampa, Florida, * May 10-14 2010 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
** Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information.


** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's DB2-L