24 X 7 DB2 & replication server

Tsui Yuk Kai

24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
Hi all,

In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to
run 2 DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2
replication server is used to replicate the log changed between this two
DB2 subsystem.
Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.

Thanks & regards

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** DB2 certification -> no additional charge
** Meet fellow DB2 users and leading DB2 consultants
_____________________________________________________________________

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Daniel Luksetich

Re: 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
(in response to Tsui Yuk Kai)
This seems like a 20 year old recommendation and a way to sell some
software.



Regardless of platform DB2 should be able to handle a mixed workload. Given
proper application design that minimizes locking, minimizes SQL execution,
properly clusters data, and keeps keys and indexes under control, you can
run a mixed workload 24X7 without issue. I've seen this happen many times.



24X7 and high availability are a completely different issue than running
batch and online on the same machine. Depending upon your requirements it
may be appropriate to push data to a secondary site. Depending upon the
costs of maintaining the secondary site, you may find yourself replicating
data and operating non-core processes at the secondary site. True 24X7 also
requires customization of application and database objects.



You should hire a non-IBM consultant to give you a second opinion. There are
lots of good ones out there.



Or, just open your wallet. Lots of people do that too.



Cheers,

Dan



Daniel L Luksetich

IBM Information Champion

IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 10 for z/OS

IBM Certified System Administrator - DB2 9 for z/OS

IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 Universal Database V7.1 Database
Administration for UNIX, Windows, and OS/2

IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Family Application Development

IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication



Vice President of Global Database Operations

YL&A, Inc.

Database Performance Professionals

http://www.ylassoc.com

http://www.db2expert.com

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/champion/profiles/luksetich.html







From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of
[login to unmask email]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:28 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [SPAM] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server



Hi all,

In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to
run 2 DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2
replication server is used to replicate the log changed between this two DB2
subsystem.
Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.

Thanks & regards

_____

< http://www.idug.org > Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG
difference!

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
not already an IDUG member, please < http://www.idug.org/register > register
here.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10
13:34:00


_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The best DB2 technical sessions in the world
** Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Tsui Yuk Kai

Re: 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
(in response to Daniel Luksetich)
Thanks Daniel,
Actually, I don't trust the DB2 replication server. If the replication
server is only for DB2 high availability (no parallel sysplex implement) and
I will accept this case. But one of DB2 use for Batch processing while the
other DB2 for online processing . I don't trust it. Any shop use this
approach? any risk?

2010/12/3 Daniel Luksetich <[login to unmask email]>

> This seems like a 20 year old recommendation and a way to sell some
> software.
>
>
>
> Regardless of platform DB2 should be able to handle a mixed workload. Given
> proper application design that minimizes locking, minimizes SQL execution,
> properly clusters data, and keeps keys and indexes under control, you can
> run a mixed workload 24X7 without issue. I’ve seen this happen many times.
>
>
>
> 24X7 and high availability are a completely different issue than running
> batch and online on the same machine. Depending upon your requirements it
> may be appropriate to push data to a secondary site. Depending upon the
> costs of maintaining the secondary site, you may find yourself replicating
> data and operating non-core processes at the secondary site. True 24X7 also
> requires customization of application and database objects.
>
>
>
> You should hire a non-IBM consultant to give you a second opinion. There
> are lots of good ones out there.
>
>
>
> Or, just open your wallet. Lots of people do that too.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Daniel L Luksetich
>
> IBM Information Champion
>
> IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 10 for z/OS
>
> IBM Certified System Administrator - DB2 9 for z/OS
>
> IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 Universal Database V7.1 Database
> Administration for UNIX, Windows, and OS/2
>
> IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Family Application
> Development
>
> IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
>
>
>
> Vice President of Global Database Operations
>
> YL&A, Inc.
>
> Database Performance Professionals
>
> http://www.ylassoc.com
>
> http://www.db2expert.com
>
> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/champion/profiles/luksetich.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] *On Behalf Of *
> [login to unmask email]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 29, 2010 10:28 AM
> *To:* [login to unmask email]
> *Subject:* [SPAM] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to
> run 2 DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2
> replication server is used to replicate the log changed between this two DB2
> subsystem.
> Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks & regards
> ------------------------------
>
> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org/ >
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
> not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10
> 13:34:00
>
> ------------------------------
>
> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org/ >
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
> not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The best DB2 technical sessions in the world
** Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Myron Miller

Re: 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
(in response to Tsui Yuk Kai)
I've never seen a shop or heard of one that did that. As Daniel indicates,
there is almost no earthly reason in today's world to not mix batch and online
on the same DB2. As long as checkpoints are taken at reasonable intervals in
the batch processes or they don't run too long (vague point), online can run
just fine with batch. My client runs a very high transaction DDF/CICS online
during the day and mostly batch with some DDF threads at night. Batch can and
does run at all hours, but most of it is at night due to various historical,
technical and business reasons. But we coexist extremely well.

If you're moderately worried, set up a sysplex and put the batch on one side of
the plex and online on the other. Then the only contention would be on the
tables themselves, none in CPU or buffer pool.

Why make things overly complicated with Replication server? We explored that a
couple of years ago for some other reasons (like serious latency issues) and
found it was not a good solution due to the extreme complexity and overhead
involved.

Myron



________________________________
From: Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 11:22:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server


Thanks Daniel,
Actually, I don't trust the DB2 replication server. If the replication server is
only for DB2 high availability (no parallel sysplex implement) and I will accept
this case. But one of DB2 use for Batch processing while the other DB2 for
online processing . I don't trust it. Any shop use this approach? any risk?



2010/12/3 Daniel Luksetich <[login to unmask email]>

This seems like a 20 year old recommendation and a way to sell some software.
>
>Regardless of platform DB2 should be able to handle a mixed workload. Given
>proper application design that minimizes locking, minimizes SQL execution,
>properly clusters data, and keeps keys and indexes under control, you can run a
>mixed workload 24X7 without issue. I’ve seen this happen many times.
>
>24X7 and high availability are a completely different issue than running batch
>and online on the same machine. Depending upon your requirements it may be
>appropriate to push data to a secondary site. Depending upon the costs of
>maintaining the secondary site, you may find yourself replicating data and
>operating non-core processes at the secondary site. True 24X7 also requires
>customization of application and database objects.
>
>You should hire a non-IBM consultant to give you a second opinion. There are
>lots of good ones out there.
>
>Or, just open your wallet. Lots of people do that too.
>
>Cheers,
>Dan
>
>Daniel L Luksetich
>IBM Information Champion
>IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 10 for z/OS
>IBM Certified System Administrator - DB2 9 for z/OS
>IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 Universal Database V7.1 Database
>Administration for UNIX, Windows, and OS/2
>IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Family Application Development
>IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
>
>Vice President of Global Database Operations
>YL&A, Inc.
>Database Performance Professionals
>http://www.ylassoc.com/
>http://www.db2expert.com/
>http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/champion/profiles/luksetich.html
>
>
>
>From:IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
>Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:28 AM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: [SPAM] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
>
>Hi all,
>
>In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to run 2
>DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2 replication
>server is used to replicate the log changed between this two DB2 subsystem.
>Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks & regards
>
________________________________

>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
>already an IDUG member, please register here.
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10
>13:34:00
>________________________________

>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
>already an IDUG member, please register here.
>

________________________________

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
already an IDUG member, please register here.


_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The best DB2 technical sessions in the world
** Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Tsui Yuk Kai

Re: 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
(in response to Myron Miller)
Thanks for sharing.

2010/12/4 Myron Miller <[login to unmask email]>

> I've never seen a shop or heard of one that did that. As Daniel indicates,
> there is almost no earthly reason in today's world to not mix batch and
> online on the same DB2. As long as checkpoints are taken at reasonable
> intervals in the batch processes or they don't run too long (vague point),
> online can run just fine with batch. My client runs a very high transaction
> DDF/CICS online during the day and mostly batch with some DDF threads at
> night. Batch can and does run at all hours, but most of it is at night due
> to various historical, technical and business reasons. But we coexist
> extremely well.
>
> If you're moderately worried, set up a sysplex and put the batch on one
> side of the plex and online on the other. Then the only contention would be
> on the tables themselves, none in CPU or buffer pool.
>
> Why make things overly complicated with Replication server? We explored
> that a couple of years ago for some other reasons (like serious latency
> issues) and found it was not a good solution due to the extreme complexity
> and overhead involved.
>
> Myron
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]>
>
> *To:* [login to unmask email]
> *Sent:* Fri, December 3, 2010 11:22:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [DB2-L] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
>
> Thanks Daniel,
> Actually, I don't trust the DB2 replication server. If the replication
> server is only for DB2 high availability (no parallel sysplex implement) and
> I will accept this case. But one of DB2 use for Batch processing while the
> other DB2 for online processing . I don't trust it. Any shop use this
> approach? any risk?
>
> 2010/12/3 Daniel Luksetich <[login to unmask email]>
>
>> This seems like a 20 year old recommendation and a way to sell some
>> software.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of platform DB2 should be able to handle a mixed workload.
>> Given proper application design that minimizes locking, minimizes SQL
>> execution, properly clusters data, and keeps keys and indexes under control,
>> you can run a mixed workload 24X7 without issue. I’ve seen this happen many
>> times.
>>
>>
>>
>> 24X7 and high availability are a completely different issue than running
>> batch and online on the same machine. Depending upon your requirements it
>> may be appropriate to push data to a secondary site. Depending upon the
>> costs of maintaining the secondary site, you may find yourself replicating
>> data and operating non-core processes at the secondary site. True 24X7 also
>> requires customization of application and database objects.
>>
>>
>>
>> You should hire a non-IBM consultant to give you a second opinion. There
>> are lots of good ones out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or, just open your wallet. Lots of people do that too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel L Luksetich
>>
>> IBM Information Champion
>>
>> IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 10 for z/OS
>>
>> IBM Certified System Administrator - DB2 9 for z/OS
>>
>> IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 Universal Database V7.1 Database
>> Administration for UNIX, Windows, and OS/2
>>
>> IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Family Application
>> Development
>>
>> IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
>>
>>
>>
>> Vice President of Global Database Operations
>>
>> YL&A, Inc.
>>
>> Database Performance Professionals
>>
>> http://www.ylassoc.com/
>>
>> http://www.db2expert.com/
>>
>> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/champion/profiles/luksetich.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] *On Behalf Of *
>> [login to unmask email]
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 29, 2010 10:28 AM
>> *To:* [login to unmask email]
>> *Subject:* [SPAM] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to
>> run 2 DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2
>> replication server is used to replicate the log changed between this two DB2
>> subsystem.
>> Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks & regards
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org/ >
>>
>> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you
>> are not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10
>> 13:34:00
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org/ >
>>
>> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you
>> are not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org >
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
> not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> [image: Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference! ] < http://www.idug.org >
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are
> not already an IDUG member, please register here. < http://www.idug.org/register >
>

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG EMEA * Prague, Czech Republic * 14-18 November 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/EMEA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
** DB2 certification -> no additional charge
** Meet fellow DB2 users and leading DB2 consultants
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Philip Gunning

Re: 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
(in response to Tsui Yuk Kai)
Most shops I have been in and led have a mix of online and batch oin same subsystem; exception being PeopeSoft in some cases. Has been like this for at keast 15 yrs. As Dan and Myron point out, batch has to be done intelligemtly, with adequate commits. PG
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Myron Miller <[login to unmask email]>
Sender: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 17:50:54
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Reply-To: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server

I've never seen a shop or heard of one that did that. As Daniel indicates,
there is almost no earthly reason in today's world to not mix batch and online
on the same DB2. As long as checkpoints are taken at reasonable intervals in
the batch processes or they don't run too long (vague point), online can run
just fine with batch. My client runs a very high transaction DDF/CICS online
during the day and mostly batch with some DDF threads at night. Batch can and
does run at all hours, but most of it is at night due to various historical,
technical and business reasons. But we coexist extremely well.

If you're moderately worried, set up a sysplex and put the batch on one side of
the plex and online on the other. Then the only contention would be on the
tables themselves, none in CPU or buffer pool.

Why make things overly complicated with Replication server? We explored that a
couple of years ago for some other reasons (like serious latency issues) and
found it was not a good solution due to the extreme complexity and overhead
involved.

Myron



________________________________
From: Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 11:22:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server


Thanks Daniel,
Actually, I don't trust the DB2 replication server. If the replication server is
only for DB2 high availability (no parallel sysplex implement) and I will accept
this case. But one of DB2 use for Batch processing while the other DB2 for
online processing . I don't trust it. Any shop use this approach? any risk?



2010/12/3 Daniel Luksetich <[login to unmask email]>

This seems like a 20 year old recommendation and a way to sell some software.
>
>Regardless of platform DB2 should be able to handle a mixed workload. Given
>proper application design that minimizes locking, minimizes SQL execution,
>properly clusters data, and keeps keys and indexes under control, you can run a
>mixed workload 24X7 without issue. I’ve seen this happen many times.
>
>24X7 and high availability are a completely different issue than running batch
>and online on the same machine. Depending upon your requirements it may be
>appropriate to push data to a secondary site. Depending upon the costs of
>maintaining the secondary site, you may find yourself replicating data and
>operating non-core processes at the secondary site. True 24X7 also requires
>customization of application and database objects.
>
>You should hire a non-IBM consultant to give you a second opinion. There are
>lots of good ones out there.
>
>Or, just open your wallet. Lots of people do that too.
>
>Cheers,
>Dan
>
>Daniel L Luksetich
>IBM Information Champion
>IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 10 for z/OS
>IBM Certified System Administrator - DB2 9 for z/OS
>IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 Universal Database V7.1 Database
>Administration for UNIX, Windows, and OS/2
>IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Family Application Development
>IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
>
>Vice President of Global Database Operations
>YL&A, Inc.
>Database Performance Professionals
>http://www.ylassoc.com/
>http://www.db2expert.com/
>http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/champion/profiles/luksetich.html
>
>
>
>From:IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of [login to unmask email]
>Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:28 AM
>To: [login to unmask email]
>Subject: [SPAM] 24 X 7 DB2 & replication server
>
>Hi all,
>
>In order to achieve 24x7 and high availability, IBM recommend our shop to run 2
>DB2 subsystem, one for online and the other DB2 for batch, a DB2 replication
>server is used to replicate the log changed between this two DB2 subsystem.
>Is there any shop use this approach? Any comment will be appreciated.
>
>Thanks & regards
>
________________________________

>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
>already an IDUG member, please register here.
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3285 - Release Date: 11/28/10
>13:34:00
>________________________________

>The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
>already an IDUG member, please register here.
>

________________________________

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
already an IDUG member, please register here.


_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The best DB2 technical sessions in the world
** Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG difference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG EMEA * Prague, Czech Republic * 14-18 November 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/EMEA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
** DB2 certification -> no additional charge
** Meet fellow DB2 users and leading DB2 consultants
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv