CICS VSAM Transparency

Tsui Yuk Kai

CICS VSAM Transparency
Hi all,

Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to aware
before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only run
the conversion tools?

Thanks for sharing

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
How can you expand your staff or do succession planning in this economy?
Mentoring is a proven, economical, way to train the next generation of DB2 Users!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Avram Friedman

Re: CICS VSAM Transparency
(in response to Tsui Yuk Kai)
As I recall VSAM transparency allowed the use of VSAM AMS macros to access ISAM files.
Or was it the other way around allowd ISAM macros to access VSAM files.

With respect to your question there is no diffrrence.
Neither will work after you convert the underlying file structures to DB2.
Officially only DB2 SQL can access DB2 structures (It is one of Codd's rules for relational management systems)
There are a few ISV products that violate this rule in utilty products but that is a diffrent discussion.

For more information on VSAM transparency in general I would suggest the IBM-MAIN Listserv.

You might want to try a Q&A with IBM but I don't think this has been supported for many years.

Best Wishes
Avram Friedman

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:30:02 +0800, Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to aware
>before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only run
>the conversion tools?
>
>Thanks for sharing
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
>* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
>_____________________________________________________________________
>http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
>How can you expand your staff or do succession planning in this economy?
>Mentoring is a proven, economical, way to train the next generation of DB2 Users!
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv
>

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Joe Geller

Re: CICS VSAM Transparency
(in response to Avram Friedman)
Actually, CICS VSAM Transparency is an IBM product for converting VSAM files to DB2
while leaving your VSAM code as is. It's an interface that takes the VSAM calls and
translates them to DB2 calls. It's described here:
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/vt/
and here:
http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/Overview/Software/Other_Software/CICS_VSAM_Transparency_for_z~OS

Joe


As I recall VSAM transparency allowed the use of VSAM AMS macros to access ISAM files.
Or was it the other way around allowd ISAM macros to access VSAM files.

With respect to your question there is no diffrrence.
Neither will work after you convert the underlying file structures to DB2.
Officially only DB2 SQL can access DB2 structures (It is one of Codd's rules for relational management systems)
There are a few ISV products that violate this rule in utilty products but that is a diffrent discussion.

For more information on VSAM transparency in general I would suggest the IBM-MAIN Listserv.

You might want to try a Q&A with IBM but I don't think this has been supported for many years.

Best Wishes
Avram Friedman

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:30:02 +0800, Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to aware
>before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only run
>the conversion tools?
>
>Thanks for sharing

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Avram Friedman

Re: CICS VSAM Transparency
(in response to Joe Geller)
I think we are both right
There is a 5 year old product called CICS VSAM Transparency that helps convert VSAM to DB2
and a 40 year old feature of the operating system, called the same thing that provides an ISAM VSAM bridge.

Now what do we have in the original ticket
1. A user planning a future DB2 conversion
2. A user that already has a CICS VSAM Transparency product installed and is asking basic questions about it.

My guess is is not the newer "VSAM Transparency" It it was the user would have manuals and presentations at hand from the recent install. Its my experience as well that conversion products are licensed at the same time or after the license for the convert 2 product is obtained.

If you do a google search on VSAM Transparency and also include the keyword ISAM most of the hits will be for the newer product and a very small number for the 40+ year old feature (even with the ISAM hint).
Thats because 40 years ago there was not a very active internet. (VSAM Transparency was VERY VERY popular 40 years ago)

Now I ask you does the original question have the taste of an old product or a new one ?
To me it reads like an old environment at last trying to get current.

But who knows for sure.
It is always a good idea to include sufficent information a identify a product in a post even if you don't think there is any possible ambeguity. This listserv suffers from frequent difficulty in identifying what flavor of DB2 is being discussed.
How much more so would one expect difficulty with code like VSAM Transparency.

Avram Friedman

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:19:40 -0500, Joe Geller <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Actually, CICS VSAM Transparency is an IBM product for converting VSAM files to DB2
>while leaving your VSAM code as is. It's an interface that takes the VSAM calls and
>translates them to DB2 calls. It's described here:
>http://www-01.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/vt/
>and here:
>http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/Overview/Software/Other_Software/CICS_VSAM_Transparency_for_z~OS
>
>Joe
>
>
>As I recall VSAM transparency allowed the use of VSAM AMS macros to access ISAM files.
>Or was it the other way around allowd ISAM macros to access VSAM files.
>
>With respect to your question there is no diffrrence.
>Neither will work after you convert the underlying file structures to DB2.
>Officially only DB2 SQL can access DB2 structures (It is one of Codd's rules for relational management systems)
>There are a few ISV products that violate this rule in utilty products but that is a diffrent discussion.
>
>For more information on VSAM transparency in general I would suggest the IBM-MAIN Listserv.
>
>You might want to try a Q&A with IBM but I don't think this has been supported for many years.
>
>Best Wishes
>Avram Friedman
>
>On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:30:02 +0800, Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to aware
>>before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only run
>>the conversion tools?
>>
>>Thanks for sharing
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
>* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
>_____________________________________________________________________
>http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
>Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
>IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
>If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Stan Hoey

Re: CICS VSAM Transparency
(in response to Avram Friedman)
Avram.



You are showing your age (o;



CICS VSAM transparency is a relatively new product, and not the old IBM
DB2 tool you are referring to. CICS VSAM Transparency uses static SQL to
access DB2.



http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/Overview/Software/Other_Soft
ware/CICS_VSAM_Transparency_for_z~OS



Stan Hoey



-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Avram
Friedman
Sent: 06 December 2010 15:59
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] CICS VSAM Transparency



As I recall VSAM transparency allowed the use of VSAM AMS macros to
access ISAM files.

Or was it the other way around allowd ISAM macros to access VSAM files.



With respect to your question there is no diffrrence.

Neither will work after you convert the underlying file structures to
DB2.

Officially only DB2 SQL can access DB2 structures (It is one of Codd's
rules for relational management systems)

There are a few ISV products that violate this rule in utilty products
but that is a diffrent discussion.



For more information on VSAM transparency in general I would suggest the
IBM-MAIN Listserv.



You might want to try a Q&A with IBM but I don't think this has been
supported for many years.



Best Wishes

Avram Friedman



On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:30:02 +0800, Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]>
wrote:



>Hi all,

>

>Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to
aware

>before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only
run

>the conversion tools?

>

>Thanks for sharing

>

>_____________________________________________________________________

>* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
http://IDUG.ORG/NA *

>* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2
information. *

>_____________________________________________________________________

>http://www.IDUG.org/mentor

>How can you expand your staff or do succession planning in this
economy?

>Mentoring is a proven, economical, way to train the next generation of
DB2 Users!

>_____________________________________________________________________

>

>If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

>



_____________________________________________________________________

* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
http://IDUG.ORG/NA *

* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is
it! *

_____________________________________________________________________

http://www.IDUG.org/mentor

Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...

IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!

_____________________________________________________________________



If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Tony Saul

Re: CICS VSAM Transparency
(in response to Stan Hoey)
Besides the IBM (Candle) VSAM Transparency there is also 2BDB2/VSAM
(http://www.isi.com.au/2bdb2.html ) that we use at the site I am working at now.
IBM originally requested this to be written for them, but renigged on the
agreement when they bought Candle as they already had a product.
2BDB2/VSAM works pretty well. We had a couple of program changes required mostly
from COBOL programs not initialising decimal fields and checking for blanks to
perform init logic, but the transparency will fix incorrect decimal data before
writing to DB2.

The application continues to think of it as VSAM and can still use IDCAMS
and SORT, but you can code native DB2 calls next to VSAM calls to get the same
data (if you really wanted to).

Of course while you are treating the data as VSAM you will not get the full
benefits of being DB2, but it is a comparitively quicker way to get your data
into DB2 and then convert or rewrite the applications to native SQL.
 Regards,
Tony




________________________________
From: Tommy Tsui <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Mon, 6 December, 2010 3:00:02 AM
Subject: [DB2-L] CICS VSAM Transparency

Hi all,

Any shop use the "CICS VSAM Transparency" currently. Anything need to aware
before migrate to DB2. Do we need to change any program coding or only run the
conversion tools?

Thanks for sharing


________________________________

The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not
already an IDUG member, please register here.





_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* If you are going to attend only one conference this year, this is it! *
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.IDUG.org/mentor
Mentoring should be a rewarding experience for everyone...
IDUG is offering up to 80% off when you both come to the conference!
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv