DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?

Leslie

DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
Hi everyone,

In the last few hours I've received several private emails with respect to
my comments on "The Test" and "Indian Companies" that has made me decide to
post this message to the list.

I'm wondering, if you had a person turn up at your desk and say (like I did
once to somebody) "How do I get a job in the DB2 DBA / SYSPROG for z/Os
world?" ... what would you do?

Put them off? Encourage them? Suggest they re-train as an Investment Banker
:-) ? etc

I'm 45, I've worked for several large "blue Chips" and in the last ten years
I've watched company after company shelve almost "all" their IT staff to
offshore.....and as we know it's debatable that it buys you anything except
stress for those left behind, 10 million people to talk to at the outsourced
company, huge staff churn at the outsourced company, I could write a book
about this trust me. What it does NOT buy you is efficient, well oiled, well
communicating, well setup, vertical towers of staff.

Now for my point on DB2. Let's look into our crystal ball at DB2 for
z/Os... ten or twenty years into the future.

In the year 2000 I put DB2 v6 into my then site, in 2010 I put DB2 9 into my
current site. So at a guess in the year 2020 we will be looking at DB2 12 or
(the dreaded) 13. However, how many sites in the Western world will there be
left using our beloved DB2 on z/Os?

I've asked several high (to the top) ranking officials in the blue building
this and the future looks kind of indifferent to say the least. Ok I'm not
looking to rock any boats, but I think it is a pretty fair question when all
of us work so hard to promote, install and manage DB2 for them.

I see customer after customer trying to cut costs by cutting staff (and most
of those staff know what they are doing with DB2 z/Os). Then when there is
little or no staff left to cut they get sold down the river of "it's cheaper
on unix" or even worse "it's cheaper on Wintel" by Sales men/women.

Ok at 45 I'm not that worried anymore for my own career, but I do worry for
the new generation of IT professionals coming out of our University's with
IT degrees or even those kids that want to take apprenticeships in IT ...

Should I be worried? every year that goes by I get more worried ... Is the
future bleak or bright for DB2?

I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say ... should I have saved
this for Friday afternoon :-)

Les

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Edward Long

Re: DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
(in response to Leslie)
Interesting subject.
Two slight additional considerations:
1: How many of those shops that will still be z/OS will have technical jobs in the U.S? There will still be plenty of z/OS around in 10 years.
2: How different is the z/OS market from the other out sourced specialities? My observation, thoroughly unscientific, suggests that our Oracle and SQL/SERVER cousins have been hit harder because more 'youngsters' think that Larry and Bill invented the relational model. They are genuinely intimidated by the dreaded  "// DD " .
There is a terrific George Jones, I think, song "Who's gonna fill their shoes?".
The IBM university initiative has certainly made a bit of dent; how much and whether I could in all honesty recommend someone pursue z/OS is very tough to answer.

Edward Long

--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Leslie <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

From: Leslie <[login to unmask email]>
Subject: [DB2-L] DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 1:07 PM




Hi everyone,
 
In the last few hours I've received several private
emails with respect to my comments on "The Test" and "Indian Companies" that has
made me decide to post this message to the
list.
 
I'm wondering, if you had a person turn up at your desk and
say (like I did once to somebody) "How do I get a job in the DB2 DBA /
SYSPROG for z/Os world?" ...  what would you do?
 
Put them off? Encourage them? Suggest they re-train as an
Investment Banker :-) ? etc
 
I'm 45, I've worked for several large "blue Chips" and in the
last ten years I've watched company after company shelve almost "all" their IT
staff to offshore.....and as we know it's debatable that it buys you anything
except stress for those left behind, 10 million people to talk to at the
outsourced company, huge staff churn at the outsourced company, I could write a
book about this trust me. What it does NOT buy you is efficient, well oiled,
well communicating, well setup, vertical towers of staff.
 
Now for my point on DB2. Let's look  into our crystal
ball at DB2 for z/Os... ten or twenty years into the future.
 
In the year 2000 I put DB2 v6 into my then site, in 2010
I put DB2 9 into my current site. So at a guess in the year 2020 we will be
looking at DB2 12 or (the dreaded) 13. However, how many sites in the Western
world will there be left using our beloved DB2 on z/Os?
 
I've asked several high (to the top) ranking officials in
the blue building this and the future looks kind of indifferent to say the
least. Ok I'm not looking to rock any boats, but I think it is a pretty fair
question when all of us work so hard to promote, install and manage DB2 for
them.
 
I see customer after customer trying to cut costs by cutting
staff (and most of those staff know what they are doing with DB2 z/Os).
Then when there is little or no staff left to cut they get sold down the
river of "it's cheaper on unix" or even worse "it's cheaper on Wintel" by Sales
men/women.
 
Ok at 45 I'm not that worried anymore for my own career, but I
do worry for the new generation of IT professionals coming out of our
University's with IT degrees or even those kids that want to take
apprenticeships in IT ...
 
Should I be worried? every year that goes by I get more
worried ... Is the future bleak or bright for DB2?
 
I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say ... should
I have saved this for Friday afternoon :-)
 
Les



The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG member, please register here.


_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Daniel Luksetich

Re: DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
(in response to Edward Long)
This deserves an after work conversation at the local bar for a complete
discussion. There are many facets to the argument.

IMHO, the mainframe will continue to exist, and we will always need
technicians.

can talk for hours on the subject. Maybe some day

Dan

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:07:14 -0000, Leslie <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> In the last few hours I've received several private emails with respect
to
> my comments on "The Test" and "Indian Companies" that has made me decide
to
> post this message to the list.
>
> I'm wondering, if you had a person turn up at your desk and say (like I
did
> once to somebody) "How do I get a job in the DB2 DBA / SYSPROG for z/Os
> world?" ... what would you do?
>
> Put them off? Encourage them? Suggest they re-train as an Investment
Banker
> :-) ? etc
>
> I'm 45, I've worked for several large "blue Chips" and in the last ten
> years
> I've watched company after company shelve almost "all" their IT staff to
> offshore.....and as we know it's debatable that it buys you anything
except
> stress for those left behind, 10 million people to talk to at the
> outsourced
> company, huge staff churn at the outsourced company, I could write a
book
> about this trust me. What it does NOT buy you is efficient, well oiled,
> well
> communicating, well setup, vertical towers of staff.
>
> Now for my point on DB2. Let's look into our crystal ball at DB2 for
> z/Os... ten or twenty years into the future.
>
> In the year 2000 I put DB2 v6 into my then site, in 2010 I put DB2 9
into
> my
> current site. So at a guess in the year 2020 we will be looking at DB2
12
> or
> (the dreaded) 13. However, how many sites in the Western world will
there
> be
> left using our beloved DB2 on z/Os?
>
> I've asked several high (to the top) ranking officials in the blue
building
> this and the future looks kind of indifferent to say the least. Ok I'm
not
> looking to rock any boats, but I think it is a pretty fair question when
> all
> of us work so hard to promote, install and manage DB2 for them.
>
> I see customer after customer trying to cut costs by cutting staff (and
> most
> of those staff know what they are doing with DB2 z/Os). Then when there
is
> little or no staff left to cut they get sold down the river of "it's
> cheaper
> on unix" or even worse "it's cheaper on Wintel" by Sales men/women.
>
> Ok at 45 I'm not that worried anymore for my own career, but I do worry
for
> the new generation of IT professionals coming out of our University's
with
> IT degrees or even those kids that want to take apprenticeships in IT
...
>
> Should I be worried? every year that goes by I get more worried ... Is
the
> future bleak or bright for DB2?
>
> I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say ... should I have
saved
> this for Friday afternoon :-)
>
> Les
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> * IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
> http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
> * Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2
> information. *
> ** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
> ** Access IBM experts and developers
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is
> the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Leslie

Re: DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
(in response to Daniel Luksetich)
Dan
How about at IDUG NA if I book my flights and tickets .. I need the time in
the world of DB2 people to recharge my batteries I think ;-)
Les

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Dan Luksetich
Sent: 15 February 2011 18:29
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?

This deserves an after work conversation at the local bar for a complete
discussion. There are many facets to the argument.

IMHO, the mainframe will continue to exist, and we will always need
technicians.

can talk for hours on the subject. Maybe some day

Dan

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:07:14 -0000, Leslie <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> In the last few hours I've received several private emails with
> respect
to
> my comments on "The Test" and "Indian Companies" that has made me
> decide
to
> post this message to the list.
>
> I'm wondering, if you had a person turn up at your desk and say (like
> I
did
> once to somebody) "How do I get a job in the DB2 DBA / SYSPROG for
> z/Os world?" ... what would you do?
>
> Put them off? Encourage them? Suggest they re-train as an Investment
Banker
> :-) ? etc
>
> I'm 45, I've worked for several large "blue Chips" and in the last ten
> years I've watched company after company shelve almost "all" their IT
> staff to offshore.....and as we know it's debatable that it buys you
> anything
except
> stress for those left behind, 10 million people to talk to at the
> outsourced company, huge staff churn at the outsourced company, I
> could write a
book
> about this trust me. What it does NOT buy you is efficient, well
> oiled, well communicating, well setup, vertical towers of staff.
>
> Now for my point on DB2. Let's look into our crystal ball at DB2 for
> z/Os... ten or twenty years into the future.
>
> In the year 2000 I put DB2 v6 into my then site, in 2010 I put DB2 9
into
> my
> current site. So at a guess in the year 2020 we will be looking at DB2
12
> or
> (the dreaded) 13. However, how many sites in the Western world will
there
> be
> left using our beloved DB2 on z/Os?
>
> I've asked several high (to the top) ranking officials in the blue
building
> this and the future looks kind of indifferent to say the least. Ok I'm
not
> looking to rock any boats, but I think it is a pretty fair question
> when all of us work so hard to promote, install and manage DB2 for
> them.
>
> I see customer after customer trying to cut costs by cutting staff
> (and most of those staff know what they are doing with DB2 z/Os). Then
> when there
is
> little or no staff left to cut they get sold down the river of "it's
> cheaper on unix" or even worse "it's cheaper on Wintel" by Sales
> men/women.
>
> Ok at 45 I'm not that worried anymore for my own career, but I do
> worry
for
> the new generation of IT professionals coming out of our University's
with
> IT degrees or even those kids that want to take apprenticeships in IT
...
>
> Should I be worried? every year that goes by I get more worried ... Is
the
> future bleak or bright for DB2?
>
> I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say ... should I have
saved
> this for Friday afternoon :-)
>
> Les
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> * IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
> http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
> * Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2
> information. *
> ** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
> ** Access IBM experts and developers
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> If you need to change settings,
> http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is
> the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information.
*
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is
the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Michael Bruzdzinski

Re: DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?
(in response to Leslie)
Dan,

Max's is having the Belgian Beer/Ale fest this week. A great time to discuss the future of DB2 and mainframes.

Michael Bruzdzinski
Social Security Administration
OESAE/DDBS/DBSB
[login to unmask email]
410-966-7185 (v)
443-379-2282 (Blackberry)


"Nobody knows what a DBA does but everybody has to have one, because nobody can afford two." (from "The IT Menagerie", IBM Systems Journal, circa 1990)


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Dan Luksetich
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:29 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] DB2 z/Os and the Future - your thoughts?

This deserves an after work conversation at the local bar for a complete
discussion. There are many facets to the argument.

IMHO, the mainframe will continue to exist, and we will always need
technicians.

can talk for hours on the subject. Maybe some day

Dan

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:07:14 -0000, Leslie <[login to unmask email]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> In the last few hours I've received several private emails with respect
to
> my comments on "The Test" and "Indian Companies" that has made me decide
to
> post this message to the list.
>
> I'm wondering, if you had a person turn up at your desk and say (like I
did
> once to somebody) "How do I get a job in the DB2 DBA / SYSPROG for z/Os
> world?" ... what would you do?
>
> Put them off? Encourage them? Suggest they re-train as an Investment
Banker
> :-) ? etc
>
> I'm 45, I've worked for several large "blue Chips" and in the last ten
> years
> I've watched company after company shelve almost "all" their IT staff to
> offshore.....and as we know it's debatable that it buys you anything
except
> stress for those left behind, 10 million people to talk to at the
> outsourced
> company, huge staff churn at the outsourced company, I could write a
book
> about this trust me. What it does NOT buy you is efficient, well oiled,
> well
> communicating, well setup, vertical towers of staff.
>
> Now for my point on DB2. Let's look into our crystal ball at DB2 for
> z/Os... ten or twenty years into the future.
>
> In the year 2000 I put DB2 v6 into my then site, in 2010 I put DB2 9
into
> my
> current site. So at a guess in the year 2020 we will be looking at DB2
12
> or
> (the dreaded) 13. However, how many sites in the Western world will
there
> be
> left using our beloved DB2 on z/Os?
>
> I've asked several high (to the top) ranking officials in the blue
building
> this and the future looks kind of indifferent to say the least. Ok I'm
not
> looking to rock any boats, but I think it is a pretty fair question when
> all
> of us work so hard to promote, install and manage DB2 for them.
>
> I see customer after customer trying to cut costs by cutting staff (and
> most
> of those staff know what they are doing with DB2 z/Os). Then when there
is
> little or no staff left to cut they get sold down the river of "it's
> cheaper
> on unix" or even worse "it's cheaper on Wintel" by Sales men/women.
>
> Ok at 45 I'm not that worried anymore for my own career, but I do worry
for
> the new generation of IT professionals coming out of our University's
with
> IT degrees or even those kids that want to take apprenticeships in IT
...
>
> Should I be worried? every year that goes by I get more worried ... Is
the
> future bleak or bright for DB2?
>
> I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say ... should I have
saved
> this for Friday afternoon :-)
>
> Les
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> * IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 *
> http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
> * Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2
> information. *
> ** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
> ** Access IBM experts and developers
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is
> the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_____________________________________________________________________
* IDUG North America * Anaheim, California * May 2-6 2011 * http://IDUG.ORG/NA *
* Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information. *
** The most DB2 technical sessions of any conference
** Access IBM experts and developers
_____________________________________________________________________

If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L is the home of IDUG's Listserv