Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities

RICHARD E MOLERA

Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities. Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630



Lisa McClaine

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to RICHARD E MOLERA)
We are using this suite of products (though not the utilities). We use
RC/Update, Migrator, Query, and Secure. I thought that their latest version
(P99C) did support V6 of DB2. I know that P99D is due out in a few weeks.

As far as reliability, I would have called them rock solid a year ago but
not anymore. No, I haven't experienced anything that caused downtime but
ever since CA took over Platinum, we are running into little bugs all of the
time. After we upgraded to the P99C version, we discovered 3 bugs -- not big
ones but big enough to be annoying and affect productivity. I'm not saying
that I wouldn't recommend these products (I don't know anything else out
there as versatile and powerful and frankly I'm so used to these that I
wouldn't want to learn anything new anyway) but just be careful. It is a
great set of products. I just wish it didn't have as many little bugs as we
have found recently.

Just my opinion...

Lisa



Eric Pearson

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Lisa McClaine)
We use these and have been pleased but may dump
RapidReorg and QuickCopy since the free IBM versions have
improved so much.

The only real problems we have had is that the LOAD
can't do a 254-partition Large Tablespace (has Getmain problems)
so loads for LARGE tablespaces must be broken into chunks of about
30 or so partitions at a time.

regards,

eric pearson
NS ITO Database Support


-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 2:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities. Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630








Linda Billings

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Eric Pearson)
Hi, Richard,

I have 99C here now but I don't have it fully installed yet. From
the README members that I have seen the products TOLERATE V6 but don't try
to use any of the new V6 features. That is a problem for us since our
agency customers want to exploit V6 and can't use the Platinum tools in
order to do so.

RC/Query, RC/Migrator, RC/Update, RC/Secure, RC/Compare, PRF and PDA
are installed here. They are OK except for the V6 problem. I did have a
problem where I wanted to partition a tablespace and RC/Update would not
create the partitioning index for me. I did not turn the problem in because
of the impending upgrade. PDA is not used by anyone here. I know this
because I forgot to request a temporary CPU password for PDA for an upcoming
upgrade and no one complained about it. I have found that it is a pretty
useless product. When I was beating it up, admittedly about 8 years ago
(Maybe it has improved?), it consumed more resources than it would have
saved. Many features wouldn't even work at all on a real system. My
impression was that it was built for a tinker-toy system.

My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed
right now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle in,
only a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.

My opinion and observation only,

Linda Billings
Enterprise Systems Programmer
Info-Tech Services
Department of Administration
State of Wisconsin

"The problem is not that there are problems. The problem is expecting
otherwise and thinking that having problems is a problem." - Theodore
Rubin



-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities. Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630








[login to unmask email]

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
We do use Platinum Utilities and to the point about PDA, I use it to
generate my SAP reorgs. It does seem to work very well. If any one wants to
discuss the details please send me an separate email.

John Lendman
[login to unmask email]



"Billings, Linda"
<[login to unmask email] To: [login to unmask email]
ATE.WI.US> cc:
Sent by: "DB2 Data Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2
Base Discussion List" Utilities
<[login to unmask email]>


12/13/00 02:53 PM
Please respond to "DB2
Data Base Discussion
List"






Hi, Richard,

I have 99C here now but I don't have it fully installed yet. From
the README members that I have seen the products TOLERATE V6 but don't try
to use any of the new V6 features. That is a problem for us since our
agency customers want to exploit V6 and can't use the Platinum tools in
order to do so.

RC/Query, RC/Migrator, RC/Update, RC/Secure, RC/Compare, PRF and
PDA
are installed here. They are OK except for the V6 problem. I did have a
problem where I wanted to partition a tablespace and RC/Update would not
create the partitioning index for me. I did not turn the problem in
because
of the impending upgrade. PDA is not used by anyone here. I know this
because I forgot to request a temporary CPU password for PDA for an
upcoming
upgrade and no one complained about it. I have found that it is a pretty
useless product. When I was beating it up, admittedly about 8 years ago
(Maybe it has improved?), it consumed more resources than it would have
saved. Many features wouldn't even work at all on a real system. My
impression was that it was built for a tinker-toy system.

My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed
right now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle
in,
only a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.

My opinion and observation only,

Linda Billings
Enterprise Systems Programmer
Info-Tech Services
Department of Administration
State of Wisconsin

"The problem is not that there are problems. The problem is expecting
otherwise and thinking that having problems is a problem." - Theodore
Rubin



-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities.
Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630



the










Lisa McClaine

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to John_Lendman@FPL.COM)
We use PDA too. Works well for us.

Lisa



[login to unmask email]

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Lisa McClaine)
Eric,

In case you missed the overkilled thread of discussion a few months ago,
IBM DB2 utilities are no longer free as of v7. They will be a separately
licensed and chargeable product.

Bill Gallagher, DBA
Phoenix Home Life
Enfield, CT 06083




"Pearson, Eric
L," To: [login to unmask email]
<Eric.Pearson@N cc:
SCORP.COM> Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
Sent by: DB2
Data Base
Discussion List
<[login to unmask email]
>


12/13/00 02:35
PM
Please respond
to DB2 Data
Base Discussion
List






We use these and have been pleased but may dump
RapidReorg and QuickCopy since the free IBM versions have
improved so much.

The only real problems we have had is that the LOAD
can't do a 254-partition Large Tablespace (has Getmain problems)
so loads for LARGE tablespaces must be broken into chunks of about
30 or so partitions at a time.

regards,

eric pearson
NS ITO Database Support


-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 2:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities.
Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630



the










Eric Pearson

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to BILL_GALLAGHER@PHL.COM)
WOW.
In that case, I have a *real*
strong argument for us to drop the OEM utilities.
If we must pay no matter what, it makes sense
to use one vendor for the product and the utilities
and thus avoid cross-vendor finger pointing and
responsibility evasion.

regards,

eric pearson
NS ITO Database Support


-----Original Message-----
From: [login to unmask email] [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:38 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Eric,

In case you missed the overkilled thread of discussion a few months ago,
IBM DB2 utilities are no longer free as of v7. They will be a separately
licensed and chargeable product.

Bill Gallagher, DBA
Phoenix Home Life
Enfield, CT 06083




"Pearson, Eric
L," To: [login to unmask email]
<Eric.Pearson@N cc:
SCORP.COM> Subject: Re: Evaluating
CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
Sent by: DB2
Data Base
Discussion List
<[login to unmask email]
>


12/13/00 02:35
PM
Please respond
to DB2 Data
Base Discussion
List






We use these and have been pleased but may dump
RapidReorg and QuickCopy since the free IBM versions have
improved so much.

The only real problems we have had is that the LOAD
can't do a 254-partition Large Tablespace (has Getmain problems)
so loads for LARGE tablespaces must be broken into chunks of about
30 or so partitions at a time.

regards,

eric pearson
NS ITO Database Support


-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 2:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities.
Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630



the















Nick Cianci

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Eric Pearson)
Linda,
you could be right
<>
My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed right
now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle in, only
a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.

My opinion and observation only,
</>
, but I feel that the reasons may be a little different. When they were
Platinum tools they tried to deliver ASAP the exploitation of new releases
of DB2. Quite simply they had to, to win business from the likes of BMC et
al.

Platinum was also beginning to develop fingers into other pies, Warehousing,
Modelling, Source management, .... the list goes on. I don't necessarily
believe that CA bought Platinum for the DB2 tools. I believe that the
motivation was the removal of a competitor in arenas other than DB2, as well
as the acquisition of maybe 1 or 2 key technologies.

CA if they wanted to should have the resources at hand to exploit V6, and be
well on the way to V7 exploitation. If they wanted to. I think from a CA
perspective that DB2 tools was just icing on the cake. But that is just my
theory (I would like to emphasise that I have no evidence to reinforce this
belief), and I would be most happy if CA came out and released exploitative
S/W and proved me wrong.

As the old saying goes :- "Time will Tell"

<Standard Disclaimer>
...... the above are my opinions only, and should not be construed as that
of the companies that I work for. My opinions are based on observations
that I have made, and could quite easily be incorrect. ....
</Standard Disclaimer>

Cheers,
Nick Cianci
DB2 DBA - CCRI Project
2nd Floor (West) 484 StKilda Rd MELBOURNE 3004
* (+613) 9865-8554 ** New extension **
(+61) 0408-64 06 01
* [login to unmask email]
_______________________________________________________________

No trees were killed in the sending of this
message. However - a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
_______________________________________________________________



Linda Billings

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Nick Cianci)
Nick,
I read your comments to a colleague here and he agrees with you.
This sort of thing does happen.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Cianci, Nick [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 7:02 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Linda,
you could be right
<>
My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed right
now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle in, only
a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.

My opinion and observation only,
</>
, but I feel that the reasons may be a little different. When they were
Platinum tools they tried to deliver ASAP the exploitation of new releases
of DB2. Quite simply they had to, to win business from the likes of BMC et
al.

Platinum was also beginning to develop fingers into other pies, Warehousing,
Modelling, Source management, .... the list goes on. I don't necessarily
believe that CA bought Platinum for the DB2 tools. I believe that the
motivation was the removal of a competitor in arenas other than DB2, as well
as the acquisition of maybe 1 or 2 key technologies.

CA if they wanted to should have the resources at hand to exploit V6, and be
well on the way to V7 exploitation. If they wanted to. I think from a CA
perspective that DB2 tools was just icing on the cake. But that is just my
theory (I would like to emphasise that I have no evidence to reinforce this
belief), and I would be most happy if CA came out and released exploitative
S/W and proved me wrong.

As the old saying goes :- "Time will Tell"

<Standard Disclaimer>
...... the above are my opinions only, and should not be construed as that
of the companies that I work for. My opinions are based on observations
that I have made, and could quite easily be incorrect. ....
</Standard Disclaimer>

Cheers,
Nick Cianci
DB2 DBA - CCRI Project
2nd Floor (West) 484 StKilda Rd MELBOURNE 3004
* (+613) 9865-8554 ** New extension **
(+61) 0408-64 06 01
* [login to unmask email]
_______________________________________________________________

No trees were killed in the sending of this
message. However - a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
_______________________________________________________________








Linda Billings

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
Correction: We do have one agency that uses PDA in production. However, we
are trying to get them to use the CDB automation because it is more
efficient.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:53 PM
To: 'DB2 Data Base Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Hi, Richard,

I have 99C here now but I don't have it fully installed yet. From
the README members that I have seen the products TOLERATE V6 but don't try
to use any of the new V6 features. That is a problem for us since our
agency customers want to exploit V6 and can't use the Platinum tools in
order to do so.

RC/Query, RC/Migrator, RC/Update, RC/Secure, RC/Compare, PRF and PDA
are installed here. They are OK except for the V6 problem. I did have a
problem where I wanted to partition a tablespace and RC/Update would not
create the partitioning index for me. I did not turn the problem in because
of the impending upgrade. PDA is not used by anyone here. I know this
because I forgot to request a temporary CPU password for PDA for an upcoming
upgrade and no one complained about it. I have found that it is a pretty
useless product. When I was beating it up, admittedly about 8 years ago
(Maybe it has improved?), it consumed more resources than it would have
saved. Many features wouldn't even work at all on a real system. My
impression was that it was built for a tinker-toy system.

My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed
right now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle in,
only a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.

My opinion and observation only,

Linda Billings
Enterprise Systems Programmer
Info-Tech Services
Department of Administration
State of Wisconsin

"The problem is not that there are problems. The problem is expecting
otherwise and thinking that having problems is a problem." - Theodore
Rubin



-----Original Message-----
From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:20 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Esteemed List:

Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities. Their
maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
products yet to fully support DB2 V6.

Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?

What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?

Thanks much, in advance.....

Rick Molera
703.810.5630








Steen Rasmussen

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
Hi list,

To remove any confusion wether PDA is V6 exploitative or not - P99C fully supports:

8K + 16K pagesize, REBUILD INDEX syntax as well as COPY INDEX, UDT's, LOB and ROWID are recognized and statistics collected as well as some new action conditions. TRACKMOD and MEMBER CLUSTER are supported - and instead of having to execute an initial RUNSTATS on partitioned objects before catalog update can execute - PDA support INSERTs into the SYSSTATS tables.

Merry Christmas
Steen Rasmussen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [SMTP:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 15:16
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> Correction: We do have one agency that uses PDA in production. However, we
> are trying to get them to use the CDB automation because it is more
> efficient.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:53 PM
> To: 'DB2 Data Base Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> Hi, Richard,
>
> I have 99C here now but I don't have it fully installed yet. From
> the README members that I have seen the products TOLERATE V6 but don't try
> to use any of the new V6 features. That is a problem for us since our
> agency customers want to exploit V6 and can't use the Platinum tools in
> order to do so.
>
> RC/Query, RC/Migrator, RC/Update, RC/Secure, RC/Compare, PRF and PDA
> are installed here. They are OK except for the V6 problem. I did have a
> problem where I wanted to partition a tablespace and RC/Update would not
> create the partitioning index for me. I did not turn the problem in because
> of the impending upgrade. PDA is not used by anyone here. I know this
> because I forgot to request a temporary CPU password for PDA for an upcoming
> upgrade and no one complained about it. I have found that it is a pretty
> useless product. When I was beating it up, admittedly about 8 years ago
> (Maybe it has improved?), it consumed more resources than it would have
> saved. Many features wouldn't even work at all on a real system. My
> impression was that it was built for a tinker-toy system.
>
> My suspicions are that tech support for the products is overwhelmed
> right now because of the buy-out. Perhaps they need more time to settle in,
> only a suspicion on my part. Someone might correct me.
>
> My opinion and observation only,
>
> Linda Billings
> Enterprise Systems Programmer
> Info-Tech Services
> Department of Administration
> State of Wisconsin
>
> "The problem is not that there are problems. The problem is expecting
> otherwise and thinking that having problems is a problem." - Theodore
> Rubin
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RICHARD E MOLERA [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 1:20 PM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> Esteemed List:
>
> Our shop is in the process of evaluating CA/Platinum's DB2 utilities. Their
> maintenance records suggest that they are rock-solid - only three to six
> HIPER's/year per product. However they do not appear to have updated their
> products yet to fully support DB2 V6.
>
> Can anyone who is using these products confirm/deny?
>
> What positive/negative experiences do users of these products have?
>
> Thanks much, in advance.....
>
> Rick Molera
> 703.810.5630
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >



Phil Grainger

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Steen Rasmussen)
Firstly,

It's nice to see that we DO have some friends out there in DB2-land - reading some of the posts recently I was sort f beginning to wonder.....

Anyway, I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to clarify some points about V6 toleration/exploitation and V7 toleration in the CA DB2 tools (and, yes I still keep calling them the PLATINUM tools too - it's a hard habit to break!!)

So, to summarise:

P97F and G are V6 TOLERANT

P99C starts V6 exploitation. You may remember the survey that we ran in the last few months at PLATINUM asking people which DB2 V6 features they thought were most important. We used the results of this survey to phase in exploitation of all the new stuff in V6 (and I don't think we were alone in not wanting to contemplate exploiting EVERYTHING that was new in one go!)

P99D (out at the end of the year) continues V6 exploitation AND has V7 toleration.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. If anyone needs to know specific feature/function exploitation dates for V6, they can contact CA directly (or eMail me off-list) and we can let you into some secrets.

Phil Grainger
Product Manager, DB2 Tools
Computer Associates

PS Happy holiday season to everyone in case this is my last post before next weekend!!



[login to unmask email]

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Howdy Phil,

I'm glad to see your response. I have been using Platinum DB2 tolls for
more than five years and
have been very satisfied with them. Having been spoiled on the Technical
Support side (It wasn't
uncommon to get one of the tool's Developers) when I had a problem. Now,
since most of them seem to
have "flown the coop" I usually get someone who seems to be still learning
the product when I call
Tech Support.

I am sure, over time, these individuals will "come up to speed". While I
have your ear, since we are
on the subject of DB2 Version 6, I have a question. We are preparing to
install V6 and add the Refresh
PTF's to add some of the V7 Web capabilities for our customers.

Do we have to upgrade our Platinum tools to P99D for this implementation
???

Thanks,
Don Alden

-----Original Message-----
From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:03 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Firstly,

It's nice to see that we DO have some friends out there in DB2-land -
reading some of the posts recently I was sort f beginning to wonder.....

Anyway, I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to clarify some points
about V6 toleration/exploitation and V7 toleration in the CA DB2 tools (and,
yes I still keep calling them the PLATINUM tools too - it's a hard habit to
break!!)

So, to summarise:

P97F and G are V6 TOLERANT

P99C starts V6 exploitation. You may remember the survey that we ran in the
last few months at PLATINUM asking people which DB2 V6 features they thought
were most important. We used the results of this survey to phase in
exploitation of all the new stuff in V6 (and I don't think we were alone in
not wanting to contemplate exploiting EVERYTHING that was new in one go!)

P99D (out at the end of the year) continues V6 exploitation AND has V7
toleration.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. If anyone needs to know specific
feature/function exploitation dates for V6, they can contact CA directly (or
eMail me off-list) and we can let you into some secrets.

Phil Grainger
Product Manager, DB2 Tools
Computer Associates

PS Happy holiday season to everyone in case this is my last post before next
weekend!!








Linda Billings

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Don.Alden@I-STRUCTURE.COM)
Don,

You must be one of the lucky ones. Unfortunately, that was not our
experience. I have had better support from other vendors and other
products. Recent support experiences with CA have been average to below
average. Nothing to write home about as the expression goes.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Alden [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:19 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Howdy Phil,

I'm glad to see your response. I have been using Platinum DB2 tolls for
more than five years and
have been very satisfied with them. Having been spoiled on the Technical
Support side (It wasn't
uncommon to get one of the tool's Developers) when I had a problem. Now,
since most of them seem to
have "flown the coop" I usually get someone who seems to be still learning
the product when I call
Tech Support.

I am sure, over time, these individuals will "come up to speed". While I
have your ear, since we are
on the subject of DB2 Version 6, I have a question. We are preparing to
install V6 and add the Refresh
PTF's to add some of the V7 Web capabilities for our customers.

Do we have to upgrade our Platinum tools to P99D for this implementation
???

Thanks,
Don Alden

-----Original Message-----
From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:03 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Firstly,

It's nice to see that we DO have some friends out there in DB2-land -
reading some of the posts recently I was sort f beginning to wonder.....

Anyway, I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to clarify some points
about V6 toleration/exploitation and V7 toleration in the CA DB2 tools (and,
yes I still keep calling them the PLATINUM tools too - it's a hard habit to
break!!)

So, to summarise:

P97F and G are V6 TOLERANT

P99C starts V6 exploitation. You may remember the survey that we ran in the
last few months at PLATINUM asking people which DB2 V6 features they thought
were most important. We used the results of this survey to phase in
exploitation of all the new stuff in V6 (and I don't think we were alone in
not wanting to contemplate exploiting EVERYTHING that was new in one go!)

P99D (out at the end of the year) continues V6 exploitation AND has V7
toleration.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. If anyone needs to know specific
feature/function exploitation dates for V6, they can contact CA directly (or
eMail me off-list) and we can let you into some secrets.

Phil Grainger
Product Manager, DB2 Tools
Computer Associates

PS Happy holiday season to everyone in case this is my last post before next
weekend!!













Max Scarpa

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Rob Crane)
Hi listers....and Hi Linda.

I agree with you, Linda. My very recent experience (Hi Mauro and others
.....) with CA/Platinum toolz and utilitiez is not very positive. We had
problem with the products itself and with the tech support (especially out
of Italy).

I'm Phil Grainger's 'friend' (I hope and I would like to continue to be a
'friend') but some difficulties must be known (for instance to obtain a
setup parmilb member... )

Regards

Max Scarpa
DB2 sysprog



Rob Crane

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
If you want to use Platinum to support any V6 features you need the P99
code.

Don Alden wrote:
>
> Howdy Phil,
>
> I'm glad to see your response. I have been using Platinum DB2 tolls for
> more than five years and
> have been very satisfied with them. Having been spoiled on the Technical
> Support side (It wasn't
> uncommon to get one of the tool's Developers) when I had a problem. Now,
> since most of them seem to
> have "flown the coop" I usually get someone who seems to be still learning
> the product when I call
> Tech Support.
>
> I am sure, over time, these individuals will "come up to speed". While I
> have your ear, since we are
> on the subject of DB2 Version 6, I have a question. We are preparing to
> install V6 and add the Refresh
> PTF's to add some of the V7 Web capabilities for our customers.
>
> Do we have to upgrade our Platinum tools to P99D for this implementation
> ???
>
> Thanks,
> Don Alden
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:03 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> Firstly,
>
> It's nice to see that we DO have some friends out there in DB2-land -
> reading some of the posts recently I was sort f beginning to wonder.....
>
> Anyway, I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to clarify some points
> about V6 toleration/exploitation and V7 toleration in the CA DB2 tools (and,
> yes I still keep calling them the PLATINUM tools too - it's a hard habit to
> break!!)
>
> So, to summarise:
>
> P97F and G are V6 TOLERANT
>
> P99C starts V6 exploitation. You may remember the survey that we ran in the
> last few months at PLATINUM asking people which DB2 V6 features they thought
> were most important. We used the results of this survey to phase in
> exploitation of all the new stuff in V6 (and I don't think we were alone in
> not wanting to contemplate exploiting EVERYTHING that was new in one go!)
>
> P99D (out at the end of the year) continues V6 exploitation AND has V7
> toleration.
>
> Hope that clarifies things a bit. If anyone needs to know specific
> feature/function exploitation dates for V6, they can contact CA directly (or
> eMail me off-list) and we can let you into some secrets.
>
> Phil Grainger
> Product Manager, DB2 Tools
> Computer Associates
>
> PS Happy holiday season to everyone in case this is my last post before next
> weekend!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Linda Billings

FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Max Scarpa)
I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in the
field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but there
was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other because
I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:44 AM
To: 'DB2 Data Base Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Don,

You must be one of the lucky ones. Unfortunately, that was not our
experience. I have had better support from other vendors and other
products. Recent support experiences with CA have been average to below
average. Nothing to write home about as the expression goes.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Alden [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:19 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Howdy Phil,

I'm glad to see your response. I have been using Platinum DB2 tolls for
more than five years and
have been very satisfied with them. Having been spoiled on the Technical
Support side (It wasn't
uncommon to get one of the tool's Developers) when I had a problem. Now,
since most of them seem to
have "flown the coop" I usually get someone who seems to be still learning
the product when I call
Tech Support.

I am sure, over time, these individuals will "come up to speed". While I
have your ear, since we are
on the subject of DB2 Version 6, I have a question. We are preparing to
install V6 and add the Refresh
PTF's to add some of the V7 Web capabilities for our customers.

Do we have to upgrade our Platinum tools to P99D for this implementation
???

Thanks,
Don Alden

-----Original Message-----
From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:03 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Firstly,

It's nice to see that we DO have some friends out there in DB2-land -
reading some of the posts recently I was sort f beginning to wonder.....

Anyway, I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to clarify some points
about V6 toleration/exploitation and V7 toleration in the CA DB2 tools (and,
yes I still keep calling them the PLATINUM tools too - it's a hard habit to
break!!)

So, to summarise:

P97F and G are V6 TOLERANT

P99C starts V6 exploitation. You may remember the survey that we ran in the
last few months at PLATINUM asking people which DB2 V6 features they thought
were most important. We used the results of this survey to phase in
exploitation of all the new stuff in V6 (and I don't think we were alone in
not wanting to contemplate exploiting EVERYTHING that was new in one go!)

P99D (out at the end of the year) continues V6 exploitation AND has V7
toleration.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. If anyone needs to know specific
feature/function exploitation dates for V6, they can contact CA directly (or
eMail me off-list) and we can let you into some secrets.

Phil Grainger
Product Manager, DB2 Tools
Computer Associates

PS Happy holiday season to everyone in case this is my last post before next
weekend!!













Rob Crane

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
The P99 code has a new features of the SDM install which make it very
easy to have the install build the necessary information for the SETUP
parmlib member. If you are having trouble send me a note and we can get
it taken care of.

-Rob Crane

Max Scarpa wrote:
>
> Hi listers....and Hi Linda.
>
> I agree with you, Linda. My very recent experience (Hi Mauro and others
> .....) with CA/Platinum toolz and utilitiez is not very positive. We had
> problem with the products itself and with the tech support (especially out
> of Italy).
>
> I'm Phil Grainger's 'friend' (I hope and I would like to continue to be a
> 'friend') but some difficulties must be known (for instance to obtain a
> setup parmilb member... )
>
> Regards
>
> Max Scarpa
> DB2 sysprog
>
>
>



Phil Grainger

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Rob Crane)
Hi Max,

No problem - friendships and business relationships don't always mean the same thing, but certainly I don't take criticism of the company I work for as criticism of me personally! And you are right, sometimes things need airing!

Phil G

-----Original Message-----
From: Max Scarpa [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 14 December 2000 15:53
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Hi listers....and Hi Linda.

I agree with you, Linda. My very recent experience (Hi Mauro and others
.....) with CA/Platinum toolz and utilitiez is not very positive. We had
problem with the products itself and with the tech support (especially out
of Italy).

I'm Phil Grainger's 'friend' (I hope and I would like to continue to be a
'friend') but some difficulties must be known (for instance to obtain a
setup parmilb member... )

Regards

Max Scarpa
DB2 sysprog






Phil Grainger

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Linda,

OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your PDA document away anywhere you could find it????

Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools, I am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and are surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask

Phil Grainger

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in the
field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but there
was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other because
I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.

Linda



Linda Billings

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would have
that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product that
I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in quite
some time.

Some things that I remember are:

1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but I
couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
either.

2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up a
rheam of paper doing that.

3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were already
reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was trying
to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.

4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Linda,

OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
PDA document away anywhere you could find it????

Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools, I
am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and are
surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask

Phil Grainger

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in the
field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but there
was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other because
I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.

Linda








Chris Hardy

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
While with CA I did much follow-up on technical issues in the filed one on
one with clients.... Keep in mind that very few people in the field per
sales are technical so they not aware or really can do anything to resolve
an issue....

Its important to call the tech support line and you may have to place
several calls to get the required attention....

Sales folks have to see $'s and if they don't technical issues fall through
the cracks.... But call your SE and ride him to follow-up on any technical
issues once you place the required calls via tech support....

They have very good technical support but you have to follow-up, YOU have to
follow-up......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billings, Linda" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would
have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product
that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in
quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but
I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up
a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were
already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was
trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools,
I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and
are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in
the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but
there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other
because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
>
the
>
>
>
>
>





Linda Billings

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Chris Hardy)
I didn't just talk to sales folks. I also talked to techies who were sent
out by someone (the SE? This was 8 years ago, after all.) to help me with
the problems. They still couldn't help. They went away and never came
back. No follow up. I also remember talking to tech support. We also had
people come out to educate us about the products but we turned out to be
more knowledgable than the instructor.

We stopped using the product (PDA) out of frustration. One agency does use
it for something so that is why we still have it. Otherwise, I haven't had
any contact with Platinum until recently when I took over support of the
products with my new employer.

My predecessor says that he didn't get much help from the Platinum tech
support. He was not impressed either. So it seems that the support was
uneven since some people seem to get wonderful support and others are less
than charmed by it.

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: hhardy [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:18 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


While with CA I did much follow-up on technical issues in the filed one on
one with clients.... Keep in mind that very few people in the field per
sales are technical so they not aware or really can do anything to resolve
an issue....

Its important to call the tech support line and you may have to place
several calls to get the required attention....

Sales folks have to see $'s and if they don't technical issues fall through
the cracks.... But call your SE and ride him to follow-up on any technical
issues once you place the required calls via tech support....

They have very good technical support but you have to follow-up, YOU have to
follow-up......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billings, Linda" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would
have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product
that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in
quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but
I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up
a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were
already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was
trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools,
I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and
are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in
the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but
there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other
because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
>
the
>
>
>
>
>










Linda Billings

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
An additional comment, we pay a lot for tech support so I don't feel that
once I have initiated a problem report that I should have to chase down tech
support all the time in order to get any satisfaction. What kind of
customer service is that? If you reported a problem to your car dealer and
he took a look at it and then went away and you had to keep pestering him
until he resolved the problem would you buy your next car from that dealer?
I think not. Especially, if you paid big bucks for the extended warranty.


Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:34 AM
To: 'DB2 Data Base Discussion List'
Subject: RE: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


I didn't just talk to sales folks. I also talked to techies who were sent
out by someone (the SE? This was 8 years ago, after all.) to help me with
the problems. They still couldn't help. They went away and never came
back. No follow up. I also remember talking to tech support. We also had
people come out to educate us about the products but we turned out to be
more knowledgable than the instructor.

We stopped using the product (PDA) out of frustration. One agency does use
it for something so that is why we still have it. Otherwise, I haven't had
any contact with Platinum until recently when I took over support of the
products with my new employer.

My predecessor says that he didn't get much help from the Platinum tech
support. He was not impressed either. So it seems that the support was
uneven since some people seem to get wonderful support and others are less
than charmed by it.

Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: hhardy [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:18 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


While with CA I did much follow-up on technical issues in the filed one on
one with clients.... Keep in mind that very few people in the field per
sales are technical so they not aware or really can do anything to resolve
an issue....

Its important to call the tech support line and you may have to place
several calls to get the required attention....

Sales folks have to see $'s and if they don't technical issues fall through
the cracks.... But call your SE and ride him to follow-up on any technical
issues once you place the required calls via tech support....

They have very good technical support but you have to follow-up, YOU have to
follow-up......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billings, Linda" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would
have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product
that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in
quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but
I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up
a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were
already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was
trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools,
I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and
are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in
the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but
there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other
because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
>
the
>
>
>
>
>










Rob Crane

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
Sounds like you had a very old version of PDA. All of the things you
describe are not issues with the current version of PDA. Personally I
think PDA rocks! You can literally do whatever you want if you take the
time to understand the product and build your own models. It is very
flexible. If you ever get the chance to use it again send me a note and
I can get you up to speed on it quickly.

-Rob

"Billings, Linda" wrote:
>
> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools, I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Myron Miller

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Rob Crane)
Its been about 4 years since I've used PDA, but when I
used it at one client site, we had it automatically
reorg tables and not indexes, pick up easily all the
tablespaces within a given database, select when to
reorg/image copy, generate exception reports, the
entire nine yards.

I used it for a major Peoplesoft installation, doing
almost everything with it, including setting up
multiple test versions of the Peoplesoft environments
quickly as the developers needed it. At one time,
there were over 15 different Peoplesoft databases plus
that many INDUS PASSPORT instances being managed
within one DB2.

To be honest, it worked great. I set up a number of
my own models using IBM utilities. Yes, there were
bugs. But Platinum (at that time still), support
helped me a lot work thru them or generated fixes
quickly.
--- "Billings, Linda" <[login to unmask email]>
wrote:
> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I
> doubt that I would have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to
> see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually
> frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a
> nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned
> out to be a product that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but
> nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it
> for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't
> used the product in quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to
> automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't
> remember the error but I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV
> (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but
> couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an
> exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line
> per page. I used up a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg
> the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though
> the indexes were already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM
> utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting
> that someone was trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to
> read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2
> Utilities
>
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't
> suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product
> management for the DB2 tools, I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are
> considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we
> as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems
> (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for
> the hell of it' and are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda
> [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2
> Utilities
>
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself
> was that people in the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for
> resolving your issues but there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like
> being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of
> something or other because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8
> years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a
> problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit
> skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
> To change your subscription options or to cancel
> your subscription visit the
> DB2-L webpage at http://www.ryci.com/db2-l. The
> owners of the list can be
>
>
>
> To change your subscription options or to cancel
> your subscription visit the DB2-L webpage at
> http://www.ryci.com/db2-l. The owners of the list
> can


__________________________________________________
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Linda Billings

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Myron Miller)
Yes, I did mention that this evaluation occurred 8 years ago and yes, it was
a very old version of PDA. It is nice to hear that the product has improved
since then. However, we have pushed off into a different direction since
then. PDA missed its chance. Thanks for the offer though.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Crane [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:09 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Sounds like you had a very old version of PDA. All of the things you
describe are not issues with the current version of PDA. Personally I
think PDA rocks! You can literally do whatever you want if you take the
time to understand the product and build your own models. It is very
flexible. If you ever get the chance to use it again send me a note and
I can get you up to speed on it quickly.

-Rob

"Billings, Linda" wrote:
>
> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would
have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product
that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in
quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but
I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up
a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were
already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was
trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools,
I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and
are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
>
> I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in
the
> field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but
there
> was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
> even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other
because
> I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
> wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
> follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.
>
> Linda
>
>
>
the
>
>
>
>
>










Phil Grainger

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Linda Billings)
No worries Linda,

I just wondered if you still had a copy handy. Even though it'd be pretty out of date, it would still have been useful to make sure we are still not missing anything

Thanks anyway though

Phil G

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 14 December 2000 17:13
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I doubt that I would have
that paper around. I can check around at home to see if I packed it away
somewhere. All I remember was being continually frustrated with each new
feature that I tried because it would prove to be a nice idea but
impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned out to be a product that
I would use to spot checking one or two objects but nothing I could use
system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it for SAP shows that
perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't used the product in quite
some time.

Some things that I remember are:

1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to automatically pick up
all objects in the database for analysis - I don't remember the error but I
couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV (?). Even a Platinum
techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but couldn't get it to work
either.

2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an exception was
encountered the product wrote a report with one line per page. I used up a
rheam of paper doing that.

3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg the tablespace, if
needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though the indexes were already
reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM utilities. I asked a
Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting that someone was trying
to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.

4) Reports generated online were confusing to read.

Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Linda,

OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
PDA document away anywhere you could find it????

Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools, I
am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and are
surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask

Phil Grainger

-----Original Message-----
From: Billings, Linda [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: 14 December 2000 16:00
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


I should add that my experience with Platinum itself was that people in the
field seemed to show a lot of enthusiasm for resolving your issues but there
was very little follow up. It was sort of like being left at the altar. I
even got visited by a vice president in charge of something or other because
I was so frustrated with PDA. (Remember, this was 8 years ago.) I even
wrote up a paper outlining everything that was a problem and I got no
follow-up, not even a thank you. So I remain a bit skeptical.

Linda











Alan Smith

Re: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Phil Grainger)
Phil,
If you're genuinely interested in what people think about Platinum
products, I could probably give you a few dozen issues. I am the main
installer/support for the products at our shop. The main problem as I see it
is the lack of any sort of human interface design in the ISPF dialogs. I'm
very familiar with platinum stuff in general but when I go into Plan
Analyzer, I just think 'I haven't got the time to spend trying to learn how
this works' - it's just too unintuitive. Very few people here will go
anywhere near it. I'm pretty knowledgeable about PDA, but when we took over
another shop and had to get rid of TMON (which did all the image copies and
runstats), I tried to replace the jobs one-for-one with PDA jobs. After
trying to get PDA to do what I wanted for over a week, I wrote my own
REXX/ISPSLIB combination to do what I needed in two days. This has been
running successfully for about a year.
Please give us something usable.

Alan Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:42:07 -0000
From: "Grainger, Phil" <[login to unmask email]>
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities

Linda,

OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't suppose you have filed your
PDA document away anywhere you could find it????

Now that I have taken on part of the product management for the DB2 tools, I
am VERY keen to find out where our products are considered 'deficient' by
customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we as a software company
actually write tools to solve real problems (sometimes we are all just a
little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for the hell of it' and are
surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask

Phil Grainger



Steve Tennant

Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities
(in response to Alan Smith)
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Just my 2c.

I think Myron and Rob have each mentioned a very
important factor, namely models. I have use Plat/CA
and had varying degrees of difficulty which I am sure
would not have happened if I understood the models
better. I won't beat the support drum here again but
as I was unable to get any valuable information about
how to use the models correctly nor any contacts
within the company who knew then any better than I
did, I gave up.

It is interesting that the two people who have 'raved'
well like the products, each set up their own models.

So Phil, how about pointing some developer/design/documentation
work at this area?

Steve T

-----Original Message-----
From: Myron Miller [mailto:[login to unmask email]
Sent: Friday, 15 December 2000 5:17
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2 Utilities


Its been about 4 years since I've used PDA, but when I
used it at one client site, we had it automatically
reorg tables and not indexes, pick up easily all the
tablespaces within a given database, select when to
reorg/image copy, generate exception reports, the
entire nine yards.

I used it for a major Peoplesoft installation, doing
almost everything with it, including setting up
multiple test versions of the Peoplesoft environments
quickly as the developers needed it. At one time,
there were over 15 different Peoplesoft databases plus
that many INDUS PASSPORT instances being managed
within one DB2.

To be honest, it worked great. I set up a number of
my own models using IBM utilities. Yes, there were
bugs. But Platinum (at that time still), support
helped me a lot work thru them or generated fixes
quickly.
--- "Billings, Linda" <[login to unmask email]>
wrote:
> Sorry, Phil, that was with my previous employer. I
> doubt that I would have
> that paper around. I can check around at home to
> see if I packed it away
> somewhere. All I remember was being continually
> frustrated with each new
> feature that I tried because it would prove to be a
> nice idea but
> impractical. PDA, ultimately for me anyway, turned
> out to be a product that
> I would use to spot checking one or two objects but
> nothing I could use
> system-wide. The fact that someone else is using it
> for SAP shows that
> perhaps some improvement has been made. I haven't
> used the product in quite
> some time.
>
> Some things that I remember are:
>
> 1) Trying to pick a database and set PDA up to
> automatically pick up
> all objects in the database for analysis - I don't
> remember the error but I
> couldn't get it to work whether I used VIO or DIV
> (?). Even a Platinum
> techie came out (not once, but twice) to help but
> couldn't get it to work
> either.
>
> 2) Using Action reports (procedures?), when an
> exception was
> encountered the product wrote a report with one line
> per page. I used up a
> rheam of paper doing that.
>
> 3) When reorg JCL was generated it would reorg
> the tablespace, if
> needed, and then reorg all the indexes even though
> the indexes were already
> reorged with the tablespaces. We were using IBM
> utilities. I asked a
> Platinum person about this at a "user group" meeting
> that someone was trying
> to organize and he didn't have any answers for me.
>
> 4) Reports generated online were confusing to
> read.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grainger, Phil [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:42 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: FW: Evaluating CA/Platinum DB2
> Utilities
>
>
> Linda,
>
> OK - I know this was WAYYYY back, but I don't
> suppose you have filed your
> PDA document away anywhere you could find it????
>
> Now that I have taken on part of the product
> management for the DB2 tools, I
> am VERY keen to find out where our products are
> considered 'deficient' by
> customers. I'd like to get to the situation where we
> as a software company
> actually write tools to solve real problems
> (sometimes we are all just a
> little but guilty of writing exciting software 'for
> the hell of it' and are
> surprised when no-one wants to buy-in!!
>
> Anyway, I just thought I'd ask
>
> Phil Grainger
<snip>