What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Cuneyt Goksu

What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
Hello List;



What would you do in this case?



This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.



Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
V7.

This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.

They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
CCSID 500



The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is they've
NO time to do that and overloaded!

The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.



Let the discussion begin.



Cuneyt


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Avram Friedman

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Cuneyt Goksu)
First off why must this be fixed?
Mixed CCSIDs impact performance not availability?

Assuming the problem must be fixed then do you need all the steps outlined in the IBM provided process.
In particular there may be a complex time consuming process to unload, drop, create, change unload dataset, reload process.
This sort of thing is intended to address the case where the hand full of special characters that are diffrent between coding schemes are actually in use. Are they?

Is there any reason to distrust the DBA's who are usually wonderful people?
If the DBA's are wonderful people then it is up to management to set priorities and staffing levels
If the DBA's are not wonderful people then a personal action may be indicated.

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
>V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
>CCSID 500
>
>
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is they've
>NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.
>
>
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>_________________________________________________________________
> International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
> Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information

Joel Goldstein

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Avram Friedman)
Quite simply, who's the boss?

If they work for the IT manager, he sets the priorities and tells them what to do.

Not doing it, might result in having to find another employer.

If the DBAs don't work for the IT manager, then the problem has to raised to a higher level of mgt for resolution.

Regards,
Joel


Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
IBM Gold Consultant
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
www.responsivesystems.com

Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at: www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1

tel. (732) 972-1261
fax.(732) 972-9416
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: [login to unmask email]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:32 PM
Subject: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?


Hello List;



What would you do in this case?



This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.



Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in V7.

This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.

They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from CCSID 500



The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is they've NO time to do that and overloaded!

The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.



Let the discussion begin.



Cuneyt



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Lockwood Lyon

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
What would I do?

As IT/DBA manager, I would hope I would be mature enough to "wake up"
and realize that I have failed my organization.

Clearly the "CCSID 500" issue has existed for several years. Why did I
not make it a priority for my team to address this? Why did I not manage
my team correctly?

Equally clearly, if my technical experts are telling me that they are
overloaded, then I have failed at setting priorities, task and work
management.

I conclude that it is time for me to meet with my team and ensure we
have clear processes in place for managing ongoing work, followed by a
solid review of current tasks and their priorities.

Once that is accomplished, I would report to my superior that, while I
originally failed to manage this issue properly, we now have processes
and priorities in-place and a clear direction and timeline for
completing high-priority work.

Lock Lyon
Fifth Third Bancorp


From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Cuneyt
Goksu(Gmail)
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:33 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that
case ?

Hello List;

What would you do in this case?

This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.

Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it
in V7.
This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
CCSID 500

The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
they've NO time to do that and overloaded!
The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2
migration...

Let the discussion begin.

Cuneyt

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Isaac Yassin

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Lockwood Lyon)
Get a new DBA

Isaac

---- Original message ----
>Date:   Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300
>From:   "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
>Subject:   [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of
DBAs in that case ?
>To:   [login to unmask email]
>
> Hello List;
>
>
>
> What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
> This is a topic that brought into discussion in a
> session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
> Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're
> supposed to get rid of it in V7.
>
> This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
> They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for
> how to get rid of from CCSID 500
>
>
>
> The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe.
> Their excuse is they've NO time to do that and
> overloaded!
>
> The net result of this case, customer cannot move
> forward for DB2 migration...
>
>
>
> Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
> Cuneyt
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG
> difference!
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your
> membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG
> member, please register here.
Isaac Yassin
IBM Gold Consultant
IBM Information Champion
IBM Certified Solution Expert
IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 for z/OS V8,9 & 10

Attend DB2 Tech Conference - The premiere event for DB2 professionals.
North America, 2-6 May, Anaheim California
EMEA, 14-18 November, Prague Czech Republic
Learn more at http://www.idug.org

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information

Isaac Yassin

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Isaac Yassin)
On 2nd thought
Make it both a new DBA and a new manager
Isaac
---- Original message ----
>Date:   Thu, 5 May 2011 02:25:57 +0300
>From:   Isaac Yassin <[login to unmask email]>
>Subject:   Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
Head of DBAs in that case ?
>To:   [login to unmask email]
>
>Get a new DBA
>
>Isaac
>
>---- Original message ----
>>Date:   Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300
>>From:   "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
>>Subject:   [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head
of
>DBAs in that case ?
>>To:   [login to unmask email]
>>
>> Hello List;
>>
>>
>>
>> What would you do in this case?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a topic that brought into discussion in a
>> session IDUG NA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're
>> supposed to get rid of it in V7.
>>
>> This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>>
>> They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for
>> how to get rid of from CCSID 500
>>
>>
>>
>> The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe.
>> Their excuse is they've NO time to do that and
>> overloaded!
>>
>> The net result of this case, customer cannot move
>> forward for DB2 migration...
>>
>>
>>
>> Let the discussion begin.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cuneyt
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG
>> difference!
>>
>> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your
>> membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG
>> member, please register here.
>Isaac Yassin
>IBM Gold Consultant
>IBM Information Champion
>IBM Certified Solution Expert
>IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 for z/OS V8,9 & 10
>
>Attend DB2 Tech Conference - The premiere event for DB2
professionals.
>North America, 2-6 May, Anaheim California
>EMEA, 14-18 November, Prague Czech Republic
>Learn more at http://www.idug.org
>
>_____________________________________________________________
____
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May
2-6, 2011!
>_____________________________________________________________
____
> International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-
profit, User Run
> Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted
DB2 information
Isaac Yassin
IBM Gold Consultant
IBM Information Champion
IBM Certified Solution Expert
IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 for z/OS V8,9 & 10

Attend DB2 Tech Conference - The premiere event for DB2 professionals.
North America, 2-6 May, Anaheim California
EMEA, 14-18 November, Prague Czech Republic
Learn more at http://www.idug.org

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information

Avram Friedman

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Isaac Yassin)
The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby, raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
>V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
>CCSID 500
>
>
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is they've
>NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.
>
>
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>_________________________________________________________________
> International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
> Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Joel Goldstein

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Avram Friedman)
So - what analogy would you create for the ponies and banker that
is equivalent to the situation of not being able to migrate to a new release
of DB2?


Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
IBM Gold Consultant
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
www.responsivesystems.com

Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at:
www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1

tel. (732) 972-1261
fax.(732) 972-9416
----- Original Message -----
From: "Avram Friedman" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that
case ?


The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby,
raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland
to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying
dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the
buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend
to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to
get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points
out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the
buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally
spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that
still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
<[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
>V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
>CCSID 500
>
>
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
>they've
>NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2
>migration.
>
>
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>_________________________________________________________________
> International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User
> Run
> Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Avram Friedman

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
Joel
This is the column mapping

Banker = IT manager
Trainer = DBA
Ponies = DB2
Buckets = CCSID
Bucket(distant) = CCSID(500)

This shop with CCSID(500) is miles ahead of most shops facing additional migrations.
CCSID(500) is a perfectly fine CCSID
THe challange is
Use to be the DB2 default but
many other products (like TSO/ISPF) had 37 or 1041 as the default
Many shops fixed the CCSID problem by illegally manually upgrading ZPARMS
The install CLIST, for good reason, only permits CCSID change
with the install function, not maintain, convert and / or upgrade functions.
Ultimatly the illegal CCSID shops are 'screwed' for reasons beyond the scope of this thread
(OK the CCSIDs of indexs and views do not appear in the catalog and are wrong)
(There is also a diffrence between that default to the system default (500) and
objects tha actually have 500 coded)
The honest CCSID(500) shop knows where they stand.

The correct way to convert from CCSID 500 to a diffrent one if desired is to request the procedure from IBM level 2 and follow it.
It should be noted that the most time consuming step opperational wise
unloading, editing and reloading all data
is usually not required
It is only required if one of the handful on not identical mapping character codes is used

Avram Friedman





On Wed, 4 May 2011 23:22:24 -0400, Joel Goldstein - Responsive Systems <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>So - what analogy would you create for the ponies and banker that
>is equivalent to the situation of not being able to migrate to a new release
>of DB2?
>
>
>Joel Goldstein
>Responsive Systems
>IBM Gold Consultant
>Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
> Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
> Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
>www.responsivesystems.com
>
>Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
>Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at:
>www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1
>
>tel. (732) 972-1261
>fax.(732) 972-9416
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Avram Friedman" <[login to unmask email]>
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
>To: <[login to unmask email]>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 10:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that
>case ?
>
>
>The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.
>
>A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby,
>raising polo ponies.
>The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
>While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
>The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland
>to attend to the care of the ponies.
>
>One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
>He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying
>dinner.
>The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the
>buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend
>to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to
>get his fair share of the food.
>The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points
>out the ponies are eating just fine.
>The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the
>buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.
>
>A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally
>spaced buckets in use.
>The banker fires the trainer.
>
>Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
>payer who wants them?
>
>Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
>payer who wants them?
>
>Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that
>still works removed.
>Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.
>
>Who is right?
>
>The banker because he is the boss
>or
>The trainner because he is the proffesional
>
>If I might suggest things are not so easy.
>How many of you identify with
> Management
> or
> Data base proffesionals?
>
>How many of you are
> Management
> or
> Data base proffesionals?
>
>How many of you wonder
> Why the story about polo ponies?
>
>Avram Friedman
>
>
>On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
><[login to unmask email]> wrote:
>
>>Hello List;
>>
>>
>>
>>What would you do in this case?
>>
>>
>>
>>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>>
>>
>>
>>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
>>V7.
>>
>>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>>
>>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
>>CCSID 500
>>
>>
>>
>>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
>>they've
>>NO time to do that and overloaded!
>>
>>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2
>>migration.
>>
>>
>>
>>Let the discussion begin.
>>
>>
>>
>>Cuneyt
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>
>>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>>_________________________________________________________________
>> International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User
>> Run
>> Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information
>>
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>_________________________________________________________________
>If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
>is the home of IDUG's Listserv
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
>_________________________________________________________________
>If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
>is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Fred Edgar

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Avram Friedman)
I've worked for Bankers who would have taken the trouble to see that the
current method was working and would have been fine with it. I've worked
for Bankers who would have fired me. But the pony story is not a real
good fit for the original situation that was presented. Either way, I'm paid to do what my management asks/tells me to do. If I can't or won't
do it, I'm free to move on to greener polo pony pastures and they're free
to send me to the glue factory.

Fred

--- On Wed, 5/4/11, Avram Friedman <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: Avram Friedman <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 9:24 PM
> The following problem is sometimes
> taught to b-school students.
>
> A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time
> with his hobby, raising polo ponies.
> The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
> While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need
> attending too.
> The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony
> trainer from Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.
>
> One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard
> week in the bank.
> He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his
> ponies enjoying dinner.
> The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to
> put one of the buckets a greater distance away from the
> other two because polo ponies tend to play and push each
> other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to get his
> fair share of the food.
> The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally
> true but points out the ponies are eating just fine.
> The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would
> like one of the buckets to be placed a greater distance
> apart.
>
> A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees
> the same equally spaced buckets in use.
> The banker fires the trainer.
>
> Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive
> drugs to any bill payer who wants them?
>
> Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive
> drugs to any bill payer who wants them?
>
> Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original
> default that still works removed.
> Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in
> this case.
>
> Who is right?
>

_________________________________________________________________

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_________________________________________________________________
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Cathy Taddei

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Fred Edgar)
If the trainer had no intention of complying with the banker's request, she should have stated her case up front. If the employer and employee could not come to agreement, then the banker will have to weigh the value of the trainer's work against the perceived insubordination, and the trainer will have to weigh the value of her job against the perceived oppression. If their negotiation is unsuccessful, they should separate at that point. To imply assent while planning to act otherwise is dishonest, a firing offense in my mind.

Av, while entertaining, I don't think the illustration is applicable; you seem to be using it to make the point that CCSID 500 is no big deal, contradicting Cuneyt's scenario in which CCSID 500 is preventing an upgrade. Cuneyt did not mention the DBA's refusing the conversion because it was not necessary; he said they refused because they had better things to do with their employer's money.

Cathy Taddei

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Avram Friedman
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:24 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby, raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of it in
>V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of from
>CCSID 500
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is they've
>NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


Cuneyt Goksu

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Cathy Taddei)
Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:58 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

If the trainer had no intention of complying with the banker's request, she should have stated her case up front. If the employer and employee could not come to agreement, then the banker will have to weigh the value of the trainer's work against the perceived insubordination, and the trainer will have to weigh the value of her job against the perceived oppression. If their negotiation is unsuccessful, they should separate at that point. To imply assent while planning to act otherwise is dishonest, a firing offense in my mind.

Av, while entertaining, I don't think the illustration is applicable; you seem to be using it to make the point that CCSID 500 is no big deal, contradicting Cuneyt's scenario in which CCSID 500 is preventing an upgrade. Cuneyt did not mention the DBA's refusing the conversion because it was not necessary; he said they refused because they had better things to do with their employer's money.

Cathy Taddei

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Avram Friedman
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:24 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby, raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of
>it in V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of
>from CCSID 500
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
>they've NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Joel Goldstein

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Cuneyt Goksu)
You've been told to do something by your management......

Do it, and do it now, or pack your personal items and leave.

While it should not be something held over the heads of employees, there are a good number of
people looking for work. Replacements should not be hard to find.
Any employee that does not understand this simple economic fact has their head buried....


Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
IBM Gold Consultant
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
www.responsivesystems.com

Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at: www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1

tel. (732) 972-1261
fax.(732) 972-9416
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?


Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:58 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

If the trainer had no intention of complying with the banker's request, she should have stated her case up front. If the employer and employee could not come to agreement, then the banker will have to weigh the value of the trainer's work against the perceived insubordination, and the trainer will have to weigh the value of her job against the perceived oppression. If their negotiation is unsuccessful, they should separate at that point. To imply assent while planning to act otherwise is dishonest, a firing offense in my mind.

Av, while entertaining, I don't think the illustration is applicable; you seem to be using it to make the point that CCSID 500 is no big deal, contradicting Cuneyt's scenario in which CCSID 500 is preventing an upgrade. Cuneyt did not mention the DBA's refusing the conversion because it was not necessary; he said they refused because they had better things to do with their employer's money.

Cathy Taddei

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Avram Friedman
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:24 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby, raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies tend to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can fail to get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but points out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of
>it in V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of
>from CCSID 500
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
>they've NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2 migration.
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


Lockwood Lyon

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Joel Goldstein)
The critical question is: Is this non-compliance or management incompetence ... or both?

I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says" school of thought. All too often I've heard a manager say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally foolish). While blind obedience may be required in some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible* for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.

Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I would consider it more likely that this is a priorities problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals really care about doing a good job.

Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the required work effort ... or some combination of these.

Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with the needs of the business, and match projected workload / priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.

A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.

Lock Lyon


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt

This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated.


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


Ram Nagasuri

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Lockwood Lyon)
I hope, the original email was intended for having any better alternative for the task.


--- On Thu, 5/5/11, Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

From: Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]>
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:06 PM

The critical question is:  Is this non-compliance or management incompetence ... or both?

I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says" school of thought.  All too often I've heard a manager say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally foolish).  While blind obedience may be required in some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible* for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.

Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I would consider it more likely that this is a priorities problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals really care about doing a good job.

Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the required work effort ... or some combination of these.

Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with the needs of the business, and match projected workload / priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.

A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.

Lock Lyon


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt

This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged.   It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated.


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L

is the home of IDUG's Listserv



_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


Ted MacNEIL

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Ram Nagasuri)
>they refused because they had better things to do with their employer's money.

That's not their call.
Management sets priority; staff implements!
I consider there is weakness on the manager's part -- at the end of the day it's their orders that prevail.
It's the GOLDEN RULE: those, who have the GOLD make the RULES.

-
Ted MacNEIL
[login to unmask email]
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv

Cathy Taddei

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Ted MacNEIL)
Lock, you are absolutely right, most technicians care very much about doing a good job, yet many of them are very bad at negotiating with management. It's hard to tell your boss that you just have too many things on your plate to add one more; I've seen technicians try to do this, and it frequently comes out sounding like insubordination. Another problem common among technicians is a narrow viewpoint; for example, they might have thought of hiring contractors for the conversion, but ruled it out as a solution because management announced cost cutting and just fired all the contractors, or they had hired contractors in the past that were more of a burden than a help. They can't visualize management making an exception to their own policies for an important upgrade, or hiring contractors that actually could take some of their workload off their shoulders, or eliminate some tasks that the DBA's think are crucial but aren't.

An astute manager can hear what her people are really trying to say, and judge whether it's real insubordination or just bad negotiation. If it's the latter, the manager might hire a contractor to come up with a project plan and help the DBA's understand how it can work. If it's insubordination, there's usually a ringleader or a big mouth; fire that one (although sometimes 2 or more) right away and see if the others shape up. I agree with Joel that there are a lot of good people looking for work and nobody should regard their job as a divine right, but I also know that it is hard to find employees that really fit well, and there is no need to waste employees with potential.

Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Lyon, Lockwood
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:07 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

The critical question is: Is this non-compliance or management incompetence ... or both?

I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says" school of thought. All too often I've heard a manager say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally foolish). While blind obedience may be required in some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible* for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.

Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I would consider it more likely that this is a priorities problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals really care about doing a good job.

Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the required work effort ... or some combination of these.

Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with the needs of the business, and match projected workload / priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.

A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.

Lock Lyon


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt


_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
is the home of IDUG's Listserv


Lockwood Lyon

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Cathy Taddei)
Thanks, Cathy.

There is something easily overlooked here: It is easy to misinterpret a "We are Overloaded" *SYMPTOM* for a "We are Overloaded" *PROBLEM*.

Based on the original post by Cuneyt, all we have is a description of a *Symptom*, not a *Problem*. Various solutions suggested so far have been based (I think) on the assumption that this is a Problem.

Consider:

a) Replace them all (A solution to the "DBAs are insubordinate / lazy / incompentent" problem )
b) Hire more DBAs (A solution to the "DBAs are really overloaded AND all work has High Priority AND
we will actually be able to hire Competent DBAs ... and manage the new staff" problem)
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate (A solution to the "DBAs are working
on other high-priority stuff and don't have time to fix the CCSID 500 problem")

Now, consider what you think if we make these assumptions:

1. There is a high-priority project underway to migrate DB2z data to Oracle.

-- Do you still fire all the DBAs? (YES!) Or do you re-evaluate your need to fix the CCSID issue?

2. Current DBA manager is not managing effectively; low-priority projects are being handled,
high-priority projects are on Hold.

-- Do you still fire all the DBAs? Or do you correctly prioritize projects?

3. Current DBAs are highly competent, but recent financial / government regulations require they
give immediate attention to support of mission-critical projects.

-- Do you still fire all the DBAs? Or do you realize that current workload is justified,
current staff has no additional capacity, meaning you need more staff?

Last, remember Cuneyt's question: "As CIO / CTO / IT Manager, what do you DO?"

My answer: Gather information beyond the "DBAs are overloaded" symptom, determine the root cause(s), address the correct issue.

Wow, what a lonnnnggg thread!

- Lock Lyon

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:09 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Lock, you are absolutely right, most technicians care very much about doing a good job, yet many of them are very bad at negotiating with management. It's hard to tell your boss that you just have too many things on your plate to add one more; I've seen technicians try to do this, and it frequently comes out sounding like insubordination. Another problem common among technicians is a narrow viewpoint; for example, they might have thought of hiring contractors for the conversion, but ruled it out as a solution because management announced cost cutting and just fired all the contractors, or they had hired contractors in the past that were more of a burden than a help. They can't visualize management making an exception to their own policies for an important upgrade, or hiring contractors that actually could take some of their workload off their shoulders, or eliminate some tasks that the DBA's think are crucial but aren't.

An astute manager can hear what her people are really trying to say, and judge whether it's real insubordination or just bad negotiation. If it's the latter, the manager might hire a contractor to come up with a project plan and help the DBA's understand how it can work. If it's insubordination, there's usually a ringleader or a big mouth; fire that one (although sometimes 2 or more) right away and see if the others shape up. I agree with Joel that there are a lot of good people looking for work and nobody should regard their job as a divine right, but I also know that it is hard to find employees that really fit well, and there is no need to waste employees with potential.

Cathy

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Lyon, Lockwood
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:07 AM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

The critical question is: Is this non-compliance or management incompetence ... or both?

I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says" school of thought. All too often I've heard a manager say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally foolish). While blind obedience may be required in some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible* for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.

Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I would consider it more likely that this is a priorities problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals really care about doing a good job.

Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the required work effort ... or some combination of these.

Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with the needs of the business, and match projected workload / priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.

A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.

Lock Lyon


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt


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Dee Reins

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Lockwood Lyon)
There are 3 basic reasons that things are done in company.
1. For the Customer
2. For the stock holder
3. For the Employee.

I believe the real question should be, "Why and when does the customer need to migrate to the new release".

I would suggest a couple brain storming sessions, a few days apart, answering the questions
Who, What, When, Where, and Why.

From those answers figure out when it needs to be done, plan for it, and just do it.

The reason I would take this approach is ; DBA's need time to plan for things, they are not spontaneous like a marketing person.



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300
>From: "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
>Subject: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of
DBAs in that case ?
>To: [login to unmask email]
>
> Hello List;
>
>
>
> What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
> This is a topic that brought into discussion in a
> session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
> Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're
> supposed to get rid of it in V7.
>
> This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
> They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for
> how to get rid of from CCSID 500
>
>
>
> The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe.
> Their excuse is they've NO time to do that and
> overloaded!
>
> The net result of this case, customer cannot move
> forward for DB2 migration...
>
>
>
> Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
> Cuneyt
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG
> difference!
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your
> membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG
> member, please register here.
Isaac Yassin
IBM Gold Consultant
IBM Information Champion
IBM Certified Solution Expert
IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 for z/OS V8,9 & 10

Attend DB2 Tech Conference - The premiere event for DB2 professionals.
North America, 2-6 May, Anaheim California
EMEA, 14-18 November, Prague Czech Republic
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Michael Ebert

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Dee Reins)
A good number of people here seem to take it for granted that it's the
employees that are the problem, and firing them the solution to all
company woes.
Makes me think.

ME.



From: Joel Goldstein - Responsive Systems <[login to unmask email]>
To: [login to unmask email]
Date: 05-05-11 19:40
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of
DBAs in that case ?
Sent by: IDUG DB2-L <[login to unmask email]>



You've been told to do something by your management......

Do it, and do it now, or pack your personal items and leave.

While it should not be something held over the heads of employees, there
are a good number of
people looking for work. Replacements should not be hard to find.
Any employee that does not understand this simple economic fact has their
head buried....


Joel Goldstein
Responsive Systems
IBM Gold Consultant
Buffer Pool Tool for DB2, the worldwide industry standard
Performance software that works...... Predicts IO Rate !!
Predicts Group Buffer Pool performance too
www.responsivesystems.com

Buffer Pool Tool for DB2 on www.LinkedIn.com
Watch the 3-Minute Buffer Pool Tool Movie at:
www.responsivesystems.com/Movie1

tel. (732) 972-1261
fax.(732) 972-9416
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.db2-l
To: <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in
that case ?

Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a moment.

There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject it since
they're overloaded not because it's something too bad for the company. But
this action prevents the corporate DB2 Migration.
And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw will be Out of
Service soon...

The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO or CIO?

a) Replace them all
b) Hire more DBAs
c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for corporate
d) ....

Cuneyt


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:58 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in
that case ?

If the trainer had no intention of complying with the banker's request,
she should have stated her case up front. If the employer and employee
could not come to agreement, then the banker will have to weigh the value
of the trainer's work against the perceived insubordination, and the
trainer will have to weigh the value of her job against the perceived
oppression. If their negotiation is unsuccessful, they should separate at
that point. To imply assent while planning to act otherwise is dishonest,
a firing offense in my mind.

Av, while entertaining, I don't think the illustration is applicable; you
seem to be using it to make the point that CCSID 500 is no big deal,
contradicting Cuneyt's scenario in which CCSID 500 is preventing an
upgrade. Cuneyt did not mention the DBA's refusing the conversion because
it was not necessary; he said they refused because they had better things
to do with their employer's money.

Cathy Taddei

-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Avram Friedman
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:24 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in
that case ?

The following problem is sometimes taught to b-school students.

A wealthy banker owns a farm in NJ where he spends time with his hobby,
raising polo ponies.
The banker however spends most of his time in NYC banking.
While the banker is off at work the polo ponies need attending too.
The banker hires a well known proffesional polo pony trainer from
Scottland to attend to the care of the ponies.

One day the banker returns to the farm in NJ after a hard week in the
bank.
He sees 3 buckets of oats spaced equally apart and his ponies enjoying
dinner.
The banker tells the trainer that it is common practice to put one of the
buckets a greater distance away from the other two because polo ponies
tend to play and push each other around so the weaker of the ponies can
fail to get his fair share of the food.
The polo pony trainer agrees and says yes this is generally true but
points out the ponies are eating just fine.
The banker informs the trainer that in the future he would like one of the
buckets to be placed a greater distance apart.

A few weeks later the banker returns to the farm and sees the same equally
spaced buckets in use.
The banker fires the trainer.

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
payer who wants them?

Its like asking should MD doctors perscribe psycoactive drugs to any bill
payer who wants them?

Like the banker, it is common to see CCSID 500 the original default that
still works removed.
Like the polo pony trainer, Why bother if it works as is in this case.

Who is right?

The banker because he is the boss
or
The trainner because he is the proffesional

If I might suggest things are not so easy.
How many of you identify with
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you are
Management
or
Data base proffesionals?

How many of you wonder
Why the story about polo ponies?

Avram Friedman


On Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300, Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail) <
[login to unmask email]> wrote:

>Hello List;
>
>What would you do in this case?
>
>This is a topic that brought into discussion in a session IDUG NA.
>
>Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're supposed to get rid of
>it in V7.
>
>This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
>They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for how to get rid of
>from CCSID 500
>
>The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe. Their excuse is
>they've NO time to do that and overloaded!
>
>The net result of this case, customer cannot move forward for DB2
migration.
>
>Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
>Cuneyt


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Aurora Dell'Anno

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Michael Ebert)
Get an EXTRA DBA - that's the only thing.

Y2K "didn't happen" because IT organisations realised that they needed to get people on the ball.

DBAs may spend all their time going through the motions of changing all the CCSID stuff - but who's going to do the rest of the work?

A good IT manager should be able to present the case for taking on more people - possibly on a temporary basis - while this issue is addressed - unless he has a time machine of course and can make the working week change to 48/14 AND find people ready, willing and strong enough to support those hours.

I spake thusly.



Thanks.


Aurora




Aurora Emanuela Dell'Anno
CA Technology - MSC
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-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of Isaac Yassin
Sent: 05 May 2011 00:26
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?

Get a new DBA

Isaac

---- Original message ----
>Date:   Wed, 4 May 2011 20:32:31 +0300
>From:   "Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)" <[login to unmask email]>
>Subject:   [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of
DBAs in that case ?
>To:   [login to unmask email]
>
> Hello List;
>
>
>
> What would you do in this case?
>
>
>
> This is a topic that brought into discussion in a
> session IDUG NA.
>
>
>
> Customer is using CCSID 500 in V8 NFM. They're
> supposed to get rid of it in V7.
>
> This situation protects them to move V9 or 10.
>
> They ask for help from IBM and receive recipe for
> how to get rid of from CCSID 500
>
>
>
> The issue is DBAs are rejecting to apply the recipe.
> Their excuse is they've NO time to do that and
> overloaded!
>
> The net result of this case, customer cannot move
> forward for DB2 migration...
>
>
>
> Let the discussion begin.
>
>
>
> Cuneyt
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Independent, not-for-profit, User Run - the IDUG
> difference!
>
> The IDUG DB2-L Listserv is only part of your
> membership in IDUG. If you are not already an IDUG
> member, please register here.
Isaac Yassin
IBM Gold Consultant
IBM Information Champion
IBM Certified Solution Expert
IBM Certified Database Administrator - DB2 for z/OS V8,9 & 10

Attend DB2 Tech Conference - The premiere event for DB2 professionals.
North America, 2-6 May, Anaheim California EMEA, 14-18 November, Prague Czech Republic Learn more at http://www.idug.org

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
International DB2 User Group (IDUG) - Independent, not-for-profit, User Run
Your only source for independent, unbiased, and trusted DB2 information

_________________________________________________________________

Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim, May 2-6, 2011!
_________________________________________________________________
If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L
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tim malamphy

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to Aurora Dell'Anno)

As the DBA Manager, I'd tell the IBM rep to back off, or I'd have HIM fired. He's been given a chance to present his case to both management and technical staff, and heard the same story from sets of people. Perhaps he/she is not persuasive enough to manage a customer account.

Neither the manager nor the DBA's seem to care. Perhaps they really do have better things to do with their employers money. They certainly seem to be in agreement, or I'm sure they wouldn't be around.

It seems that the person most interested is the IBM sales rep, making sure the upgrade path is followed.

Isn't backing your staff politically correct any more? I'm surprised at the people on THIS list, who immediately dumped on the DBAs.


--- On Thu, 5/5/11, Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 12:31 PM
> Thanks, Cathy.
>
> There is something easily overlooked here:  It is easy
> to misinterpret a "We are Overloaded"  *SYMPTOM* 
> for a "We are Overloaded" *PROBLEM*.
>
> Based on the original post by Cuneyt, all we have is a
> description of a *Symptom*, not a *Problem*. Various
> solutions suggested so far have been based (I think) on the
> assumption that this is a Problem.
>
> Consider:
>
> a) Replace them all  (A solution to the "DBAs are
> insubordinate / lazy / incompentent" problem )
> b) Hire more DBAs (A solution to the "DBAs are really
> overloaded AND all work has High Priority AND
>     we will actually be able to hire
> Competent DBAs ... and manage the new staff" problem)
> c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for
> corporate (A solution to the "DBAs are working
>     on other high-priority stuff and don't
> have time to fix the CCSID 500 problem")
>
> Now, consider what you think if we make these assumptions:
>
> 1.  There is a high-priority project underway to
> migrate DB2z data to Oracle.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  (YES!)  Or do you re-evaluate your
> need to fix the CCSID issue?
>
> 2.  Current DBA manager is not managing effectively;
> low-priority projects are being handled,
>     high-priority projects are on Hold.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  Or do you correctly prioritize
> projects?
>
> 3.  Current DBAs are highly competent, but recent
> financial / government regulations require they
>     give immediate attention to support of
> mission-critical projects.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  Or do you realize that current workload
> is justified,
>            
> current staff has no additional capacity, meaning you need
> more staff?
>
> Last, remember Cuneyt's question:  "As CIO / CTO / IT
> Manager, what do you DO?"
>
> My answer:  Gather information beyond the "DBAs are
> overloaded" symptom, determine the root cause(s), address
> the correct issue.
>
> Wow, what a lonnnnggg thread!
>
> - Lock Lyon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:09 PM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> Lock, you are absolutely right, most technicians care very
> much about doing a good job, yet many of them are very bad
> at negotiating with management.  It's hard to tell your
> boss that you just have too many things on your plate to add
> one more; I've seen technicians try to do this, and it
> frequently comes out sounding like insubordination. 
> Another problem common among technicians is a narrow
> viewpoint; for example, they might have thought of hiring
> contractors for the conversion, but ruled it out as a
> solution because management announced cost cutting and just
> fired all the contractors, or they had hired contractors in
> the past that were more of a burden than a help.  They
> can't visualize management making an exception to their own
> policies for an important upgrade, or hiring contractors
> that actually could take some of their workload off their
> shoulders, or eliminate some tasks that the DBA's think are
> crucial but aren't.
>
> An astute manager can hear what her people are really
> trying to say, and judge whether it's real insubordination
> or just bad negotiation.  If it's the latter, the
> manager might hire a contractor to come up with a project
> plan and help the DBA's understand how it can work.  If
> it's insubordination, there's usually a ringleader or a big
> mouth; fire that one (although sometimes 2 or more) right
> away and see if the others shape up.  I agree with Joel
> that there are a lot of good people looking for work and
> nobody should regard their job as a divine right, but I also
> know that it is hard to find employees that really fit well,
> and there is no need to waste employees with potential.
>
> Cathy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Lyon, Lockwood
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:07 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> The critical question is:  Is this non-compliance or
> management incompetence ... or both?
>
> I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says"
> school of thought.  All too often I've heard a manager
> say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally
> foolish).  While blind obedience may be required in
> some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible*
> for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.
>
> Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I
> would consider it more likely that this is a priorities
> problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals
> really care about doing a good job.
>
> Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must
> determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with
> authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of
> clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the
> required work effort ... or some combination of these.
>
> Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding
> critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with
> the needs of the business, and match projected workload /
> priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results
> confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with
> it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.
>
> A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really
> does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.
>
> Lock Lyon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a
> moment.
>
> There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject
> it since they're overloaded not because it's something too
> bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate
> DB2 Migration.
> And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw
> will be Out of Service soon...
>
> The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO
> or CIO?
>
> a) Replace them all
> b) Hire more DBAs
> c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for
> corporate
> d) ....
>
> Cuneyt
>
>
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Kirk Hampton

Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
(in response to tim malamphy)
Wait, did I miss something? Where was the IBM sales staff mentioned?

The original post said the customer asked IBM for support for the CCSID 500 conversion. So the customer obviously recognizes that they have a problem that needs fixing. IBM provided the instructions, but it is not a magic bullet, but rather a time-consuming operation. This fix was postponed once already, when they did the v8 migration. If they followed the migration instructions and ran the pre-migration reports, they were alerted to the CCSID issue. Deciding not to fix it back then was still a conscious decision. So my answer is, as the CTO or CIO, if the desire is to stay current on software releases, and the existing staff truly is too overloaded, you have but one choice, and that is to bring in temporary staff to handle the CCSID conversions. It was "pay me now, or pay me later" and for them, later has arrived.

I'll bet there are plenty of people on this list who would go work a contract with them to do that...



J Kirk Hampton
Sr. Specialist - Mainframe
HCL Technologies America
Mesquite Data Center
972-216-3119


-----Original Message-----
From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email] On Behalf Of tim malamphy
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:25 PM
To: Hampton, Kirk
Subject: Re: What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?



As the DBA Manager, I'd tell the IBM rep to back off, or I'd have HIM fired. He's been given a chance to present his case to both management and technical staff, and heard the same story from sets of people. Perhaps he/she is not persuasive enough to manage a customer account.

Neither the manager nor the DBA's seem to care. Perhaps they really do have better things to do with their employers money. They certainly seem to be in agreement, or I'm sure they wouldn't be around.

It seems that the person most interested is the IBM sales rep, making sure the upgrade path is followed.

Isn't backing your staff politically correct any more? I'm surprised at the people on THIS list, who immediately dumped on the DBAs.


--- On Thu, 5/5/11, Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]> wrote:

> From: Lyon, Lockwood <[login to unmask email]>
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or Head of DBAs in that case ?
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 12:31 PM
> Thanks, Cathy.
>
> There is something easily overlooked here:  It is easy
> to misinterpret a "We are Overloaded"  *SYMPTOM* 
> for a "We are Overloaded" *PROBLEM*.
>
> Based on the original post by Cuneyt, all we have is a
> description of a *Symptom*, not a *Problem*. Various
> solutions suggested so far have been based (I think) on the
> assumption that this is a Problem.
>
> Consider:
>
> a) Replace them all  (A solution to the "DBAs are
> insubordinate / lazy / incompentent" problem )
> b) Hire more DBAs (A solution to the "DBAs are really
> overloaded AND all work has High Priority AND
>     we will actually be able to hire
> Competent DBAs ... and manage the new staff" problem)
> c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for
> corporate (A solution to the "DBAs are working
>     on other high-priority stuff and don't
> have time to fix the CCSID 500 problem")
>
> Now, consider what you think if we make these assumptions:
>
> 1.  There is a high-priority project underway to
> migrate DB2z data to Oracle.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  (YES!)  Or do you re-evaluate your
> need to fix the CCSID issue?
>
> 2.  Current DBA manager is not managing effectively;
> low-priority projects are being handled,
>     high-priority projects are on Hold.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  Or do you correctly prioritize
> projects?
>
> 3.  Current DBAs are highly competent, but recent
> financial / government regulations require they
>     give immediate attention to support of
> mission-critical projects.
>
>         -- Do you still fire
> all the DBAs?  Or do you realize that current workload
> is justified,
>            
> current staff has no additional capacity, meaning you need
> more staff?
>
> Last, remember Cuneyt's question:  "As CIO / CTO / IT
> Manager, what do you DO?"
>
> My answer:  Gather information beyond the "DBAs are
> overloaded" symptom, determine the root cause(s), address
> the correct issue.
>
> Wow, what a lonnnnggg thread!
>
> - Lock Lyon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Taddei, Cathy
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:09 PM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> Lock, you are absolutely right, most technicians care very
> much about doing a good job, yet many of them are very bad
> at negotiating with management.  It's hard to tell your
> boss that you just have too many things on your plate to add
> one more; I've seen technicians try to do this, and it
> frequently comes out sounding like insubordination. 
> Another problem common among technicians is a narrow
> viewpoint; for example, they might have thought of hiring
> contractors for the conversion, but ruled it out as a
> solution because management announced cost cutting and just
> fired all the contractors, or they had hired contractors in
> the past that were more of a burden than a help.  They
> can't visualize management making an exception to their own
> policies for an important upgrade, or hiring contractors
> that actually could take some of their workload off their
> shoulders, or eliminate some tasks that the DBA's think are
> crucial but aren't.
>
> An astute manager can hear what her people are really
> trying to say, and judge whether it's real insubordination
> or just bad negotiation.  If it's the latter, the
> manager might hire a contractor to come up with a project
> plan and help the DBA's understand how it can work.  If
> it's insubordination, there's usually a ringleader or a big
> mouth; fire that one (although sometimes 2 or more) right
> away and see if the others shape up.  I agree with Joel
> that there are a lot of good people looking for work and
> nobody should regard their job as a divine right, but I also
> know that it is hard to find employees that really fit well,
> and there is no need to waste employees with potential.
>
> Cathy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Lyon, Lockwood
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:07 AM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> The critical question is:  Is this non-compliance or
> management incompetence ... or both?
>
> I can't totally agree with the "Do what management says"
> school of thought.  All too often I've heard a manager
> say, "Let's head South to Greenland!" (or some equally
> foolish).  While blind obedience may be required in
> some instances (the military?), management is *Responsible*
> for getting work done, not simply for giving orders.
>
> Based on my long experiences with technicians in IT, I
> would consider it more likely that this is a priorities
> problem. Most (again, in my experience) IT professionals
> really care about doing a good job.
>
> Thus (as I stated in a prior post) the CTO/CIO must
> determine if this is a situation of non-compliance with
> authority, lack of clear priorities & goals, lack of
> clear processes, lack of competent staff (mis)matched to the
> required work effort ... or some combination of these.
>
> Meet with the DBA manager, close the door, list outstanding
> critical work, set clear priorities that are in-line with
> the needs of the business, and match projected workload /
> priorities / deadlines with available staff. If the results
> confirm that projected workload is too high, then deal with
> it by changing workload / priorities / deadlines.
>
> A perceived "lack of resources" Symptom sometimes really
> does indicate a "lack of resources" Root Cause.
>
> Lock Lyon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IDUG DB2-L [mailto:[login to unmask email]
> On Behalf Of Cuneyt Goksu(Gmail)
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:22 PM
> To: [login to unmask email]
> Subject: Re: [DB2-L] What would you do as IT manager or
> Head of DBAs in that case ?
>
> Let's make it simple and forget about CCSID 500 in a
> moment.
>
> There is something needs to be done by DBAs and they reject
> it since they're overloaded not because it's something too
> bad for the company. But this action prevents the corporate
> DB2 Migration.
> And you can't postpone the migration more because the sw
> will be Out of Service soon...
>
> The root cause of the question is what would you do as CTO
> or CIO?
>
> a) Replace them all
> b) Hire more DBAs
> c) Hire some Consultant to make that critical things for
> corporate
> d) ....
>
> Cuneyt
>
>
> This e-mail transmission contains information that is
> confidential and may be privileged.   It is
> intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you
> receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or
> disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
> the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply
> to the message immediately by informing the sender that the
> message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it
> from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting
> this error is appreciated.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Register NOW for the IDUG DB2 Tech Conference in Anaheim,
> May 2-6, 2011!
> _________________________________________________________________
> If you need to change settings, http://www.idug.org/cgi-bin/wa?A0=DB2-L

> is the home of IDUG's Listserv
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________

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